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Thread: No Evidence Chicago Red Light Cameras Based on Safety -- System Made $71 Million

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    Re: No Evidence Chicago Red Light Cameras Based on Safety -- System Made $71 Million

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    That's where you and I disagree. It's not unfair. There's absolutely nothing unfair about ticketing people for breaking the law.
    In a previous post you advised me that life was not fair, and to get over it, thereby implying at least, that the RLC system was unfair.

    Now you're claiming that it is not unfair.

    So I ask you, how can it be a fair system if a person driving a small vehicle close to the ground, driving the speed limit and at legal following distances, is physically unable to see the light until he gets into the intersection? It cannot.

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    Re: No Evidence Chicago Red Light Cameras Based on Safety -- System Made $71 Million

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry David View Post
    As others have mentioned, the programming and timing of the yellow light is most important. Longer yellow contributes to safety. In my town we have several intersections where all lights are red for a few seconds, a technique I approve of.
    I have often wondered why this isn't the standard practice everywhere. At every light-controlled intersection I've observed, one direction turns green at exactly the same time another turns red, meaning that there may still be cars legitimately in the intersection from one direction at the time another direction is supposed to be able to go. It seems to me like obvious common sense that there should be a few seconds in each transition where all the cars from one direction are given time to clear the intersection before another direction is given the go.
    The five great lies of the Left Wrong:
    We can be Godless and free. • “Social justice” through forced redistribution of wealth. • Silencing religious opinions counts as “diversity”. • Freedom without moral and personal responsibility. • Civilization can survive the intentional undermining of the family.

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    Re: No Evidence Chicago Red Light Cameras Based on Safety -- System Made $71 Million

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Life is not fair. You'd better get used to it.
    That is no excuse at all for allowing government to willfully engage in unfair practices for the purpose of entrapping citizens into committing law violations that they didn't intend to commit and would not have committed without government's misconduct.

    It's not fair that convenience stores get robbed, but when we catch robbers doing so, we still arrest them and put them in jail. We don't just let them off because “life is not fair”. There's no reason why corrupt public servants shouldn't be treated the same way when they engage in this sort of skullduggery.
    The five great lies of the Left Wrong:
    We can be Godless and free. • “Social justice” through forced redistribution of wealth. • Silencing religious opinions counts as “diversity”. • Freedom without moral and personal responsibility. • Civilization can survive the intentional undermining of the family.

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    Re: No Evidence Chicago Red Light Cameras Based on Safety -- System Made $71 Million

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Blaylock View Post
    I have often wondered why this isn't the standard practice everywhere. At every light-controlled intersection I've observed, one direction turns green at exactly the same time another turns red, meaning that there may still be cars legitimately in the intersection from one direction at the time another direction is supposed to be able to go. It seems to me like obvious common sense that there should be a few seconds in each transition where all the cars from one direction are given time to clear the intersection before another direction is given the go.
    In my fairly small town--maybe 50,000--we have at least 2 intersections with "4 way red" programmed in, and part of the reason for that is that when we complained about the proposed RLC, ordinary citizens suggested it to the city commission, and for some miraculous reason common sense and decency prevailed. Good fortune intervened and we defeated the proposed system, and one of the benefits was the 4 way red.

    As I recall, older light systems are unable to accomplish this, but the newer ones are, though I think there is a time limit (3 seconds?) to it.

  5. #125
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    Re: No Evidence Chicago Red Light Cameras Based on Safety -- System Made $71 Million

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry David View Post
    In a previous post you advised me that life was not fair, and to get over it, thereby implying at least, that the RLC system was unfair.

    Now you're claiming that it is not unfair.

    So I ask you, how can it be a fair system if a person driving a small vehicle close to the ground, driving the speed limit and at legal following distances, is physically unable to see the light until he gets into the intersection? It cannot.
    You inferred that I meant RLC's were unfair. That is not what I said.

    Now. If you're driving a car that's so close to the pavement you can't see the traffic signal? I suggest you sell your 5-year-old's toy car and buy a real one. That is, by far, the most ridiculous argument I've ever heard in opposition of red-light cameras.

    Have you never heard of a stale green light? Did you not learn about that when you learned to drive? Every truck driver on planet earth watches for stale greens. That's because they are professional drivers. Become one. You and everyone around you in the road will be safer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Blaylock View Post
    I have often wondered why this isn't the standard practice everywhere. At every light-controlled intersection I've observed, one direction turns green at exactly the same time another turns red, meaning that there may still be cars legitimately in the intersection from one direction at the time another direction is supposed to be able to go. It seems to me like obvious common sense that there should be a few seconds in each transition where all the cars from one direction are given time to clear the intersection before another direction is given the go.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Blaylock View Post
    That is no excuse at all for allowing government to willfully engage in unfair practices for the purpose of entrapping citizens into committing law violations that they didn't intend to commit and would not have committed without government's misconduct.

    It's not fair that convenience stores get robbed, but when we catch robbers doing so, we still arrest them and put them in jail. We don't just let them off because “life is not fair”. There's no reason why corrupt public servants shouldn't be treated the same way when they engage in this sort of skullduggery.
    I love your analogy. Let me substitute for you: "It's not fair (according to you) that law enforcement puts RLCs at intersections. But we still arrest people who go through red lights at those intersections."

    If an ATM camera catches someone robbing a person at the ATM machine, should we not be able to arrest them? And, oh noes!!!! they don't even warn people they're being photographed!!!

    It's not skulduggery. What would be skulduggery is if they purposely shortened the yellow in order to trick drivers. If that was common practice, I would agree with you. And before you say, "But they all do! please cite your source.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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    Re: No Evidence Chicago Red Light Cameras Based on Safety -- System Made $71 Million

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    That's where you and I disagree. It's not unfair. There's absolutely nothing unfair about ticketing people for breaking the law.
    You apparently feel there is nothing unfair about randomly assigning guilt to people based on association and who may not have actually done anything wrong, so you'll have to excuse me if I find the quality of your judgment and conclusions lacking.
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

  7. #127
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    Re: No Evidence Chicago Red Light Cameras Based on Safety -- System Made $71 Million

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    You apparently feel there is nothing unfair about randomly assigning guilt to people based on association and who may not have actually done anything wrong, so you'll have to excuse me if I find the quality of your judgment and conclusions lacking.
    I always excuse people when they're wrong.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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    Re: No Evidence Chicago Red Light Cameras Based on Safety -- System Made $71 Million

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    It's not skulduggery. What would be skulduggery is if they purposely shortened the yellow in order to trick drivers. If that was common practice, I would agree with you. And before you say, "But they all do! please cite your source.
    Have you missed all the reports, mentioned in this thead, of exactly this thing being proven to be happening?
    The five great lies of the Left Wrong:
    We can be Godless and free. • “Social justice” through forced redistribution of wealth. • Silencing religious opinions counts as “diversity”. • Freedom without moral and personal responsibility. • Civilization can survive the intentional undermining of the family.

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    Re: No Evidence Chicago Red Light Cameras Based on Safety -- System Made $71 Million

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    I always excuse people when they're wrong.
    And also, apparently, when they engage in government-based corruption. I guess that is the influence of living in one of the most notoriously-corrupt states.
    The five great lies of the Left Wrong:
    We can be Godless and free. • “Social justice” through forced redistribution of wealth. • Silencing religious opinions counts as “diversity”. • Freedom without moral and personal responsibility. • Civilization can survive the intentional undermining of the family.

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    Re: No Evidence Chicago Red Light Cameras Based on Safety -- System Made $71 Million

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    I always excuse people when they're wrong.
    Then the question becomes, "do you hold yourself to the same standard?"

    We all agree that those who deliberately break the law should be ticketed.

    But in this case of RLC, the actual offender, the actual driver IS NOT ticketed. Strike one.

    It is documented that RLC may reduce 90 degree collisions, but that they increase rearend collisions. Strike two.

    It is documented that RLC is NOT about safety, but rather about revenue at all costs including cheating. Strike three.

    What say, Maggie?

    I always admire people who are able to admit that they may have misunderstood all the angles on any given topic.

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