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Thread: No Evidence Chicago Red Light Cameras Based on Safety -- System Made $71 Million

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    Re: No Evidence Chicago Red Light Cameras Based on Safety -- System Made $71 Million

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord of Planar View Post
    I fall back far enough that I can see the light in time.

    What's your hurry? I have the same issue in my WS6. Funny thing is, I tend to drive it slower than my sedan.
    I'm not in a hurry. I'm following at legal and safe distances, given speeds and speed limits and conditions. It's not so bad when I'm in my local area where I'm familiary with roads and interesections. It becomes a huge problem when driving in big cities or unfamiliar areas. Same on a motorcycle.

    It is unfair, and consistent with the fact that such systems are scams meant to steal the money of car owners for the profit of private companies like ATS.

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    Re: No Evidence Chicago Red Light Cameras Based on Safety -- System Made $71 Million

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow Serious View Post
    If what threegoof said was true then it seems a short yellow was used. The yellow needs to be as long as the time where the car approaching the intersection cannot stop safely at the time the light turns yellow till the time it has fully cleared the intersection meaning outside of the box. As long as the light is programed for safety concerns then there will be no issue with the cameras recording violators. Any revenue however must be accounted for which the thread indicates is lacking and that revenue should mostly go to education for vehicle safety and most certainly not to the citys general fund. And given Chicago politics, not into some corrupt officals hand.
    As others have mentioned, the programming and timing of the yellow light is most important. Longer yellow contributes to safety. In my town we have several intersections where all lights are red for a few seconds, a technique I approve of.

    When they shorten the yellow, they are compromising safety as they maliciously seek to enhance revenue.

  3. #113
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    Re: No Evidence Chicago Red Light Cameras Based on Safety -- System Made $71 Million

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry David View Post
    I'm not in a hurry. I'm following at legal and safe distances, given speeds and speed limits and conditions. It's not so bad when I'm in my local area where I'm familiary with roads and interesections. It becomes a huge problem when driving in big cities or unfamiliar areas. Same on a motorcycle.
    I've never gone through a red light in my life. I put on 25,000 miles a year in suburban Chicago; heavy traffic; lots of idiots on the road. Tommy puts on 60,000 miles a year -- never gone through a red light in his life. You need to stop looking for excuses and take a driving course.

    It is unfair, and consistent with the fact that such systems are scams meant to steal the money of car owners for the profit of private companies like ATS.
    Life is not fair. You'd better get used to it.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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    Re: No Evidence Chicago Red Light Cameras Based on Safety -- System Made $71 Million

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    I've never gone through a red light in my life. I put on 25,000 miles a year in suburban Chicago; heavy traffic; lots of idiots on the road. Tommy puts on 60,000 miles a year -- never gone through a red light in his life. You need to stop looking for excuses and take a driving course.



    Life is not fair. You'd better get used to it.
    I've been aware for several decades now, about 5, that life is not fair. Understanding that life and government policy are rather 2 different things, I still object when government policy creates gross injustice so that private companies might be enrichened. That's my gripe.

    And I'll bet my last dollar Maggie, that you have never fully studied exactly how these systems are designed and operated.

    I'm sure that you have never run a red light. No problem. But I'll bet that in cases you were never even aware of, PART of your vehicle was "in the box" when the light is red. That's all it takes--just inches still in the box, and it's a ticket. As the 2 police officers explained to me, it is a statistical certainty that when that camera flashes as the light turns red, there will be AT LEAST one vehicle's rear end in the box. The higher traffic volume, the more cars in the box at that second.

    The system catches those in the wrong place by inches, at the wrong time by fractions of seconds. That has nothing to do with safety, and is dishonest.

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    Re: No Evidence Chicago Red Light Cameras Based on Safety -- System Made $71 Million

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry David View Post
    I've been aware for several decades now, about 5, that life is not fair. Understanding that life and government policy are rather 2 different things, I still object when government policy creates gross injustice so that private companies might be enrichened. That's my gripe.

    And I'll bet my last dollar Maggie, that you have never fully studied exactly how these systems are designed and operated.

    I'm sure that you have never run a red light. No problem. But I'll bet that in cases you were never even aware of, PART of your vehicle was "in the box" when the light is red. That's all it takes--just inches still in the box, and it's a ticket. As the 2 police officers explained to me, it is a statistical certainty that when that camera flashes as the light turns red, there will be AT LEAST one vehicle's rear end in the box. The higher traffic volume, the more cars in the box at that second.

    The system catches those in the wrong place by inches, at the wrong time by fractions of seconds. That has nothing to do with safety, and is dishonest.
    That'd be all well and good if that's the way the systems work. It's not. They monitor those cars entering the intersection after the red -- not still in it.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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    Re: No Evidence Chicago Red Light Cameras Based on Safety -- System Made $71 Million

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    That'd be all well and good if that's the way the systems work. It's not. They monitor those cars entering the intersection after the red -- not still in it.
    Perhaps there are different systems Maggie.

    I was briefed on the ATS system, as that was the one being proposed in my town. In that system, ANY vehicle and all vehicles "in the box" when the light turns red, NOT yellow, are photographed at that instant. Any part of the vehicle in the box draws the ticket. That's why it is so lucrative to the companies. I say again Maggie, as described by the police officers working with ATS, it is a statistical certainty that, depending upon traffic volume, there will be at least one vehicle 'in the box' when that camera flashes when the light turns red.

    So maybe the system in Chicago is different--I don't know. But I doubt it, because the goal is the same--revenue. Something like $1000 per camera per day, at a busy intersection. Under the right conditions, the systems are cash cows.

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    Re: No Evidence Chicago Red Light Cameras Based on Safety -- System Made $71 Million

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry David View Post
    Perhaps there are different systems Maggie.

    I was briefed on the ATS system, as that was the one being proposed in my town. In that system, ANY vehicle and all vehicles "in the box" when the light turns red, NOT yellow, are photographed at that instant. Any part of the vehicle in the box draws the ticket. That's why it is so lucrative to the companies. I say again Maggie, as described by the police officers working with ATS, it is a statistical certainty that, depending upon traffic volume, there will be at least one vehicle 'in the box' when that camera flashes when the light turns red.

    So maybe the system in Chicago is different--I don't know. But I doubt it, because the goal is the same--revenue. Something like $1000 per camera per day, at a busy intersection. Under the right conditions, the systems are cash cows.
    Trust but verify. Red-light camera function is all over the internet. Not one of them describes a system where, if one's car is inches "in the box" at the far end they are infracted. They all describe a system where you are infracted if your car enters the intersection on the red. Either you misunderstood what those people told you? Or they were wrong. What you are describing is a system where yellow means stop. That's not how it works.

    Look it up.
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    Re: No Evidence Chicago Red Light Cameras Based on Safety -- System Made $71 Million

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Trust but verify. Red-light camera function is all over the internet. Not one of them describes a system where, if one's car is inches "in the box" at the far end they are infracted. They all describe a system where you are infracted if your car enters the intersection on the red. Either you misunderstood what those people told you? Or they were wrong. What you are describing is a system where yellow means stop. That's not how it works.

    Look it up.
    I have looked it up, many times, but it's been a few years. I doubt anything on the internet is going to tell the whole truth. I feel confident that the 2 different police officers who briefed me (ATS system) were not making this up.

    "In the box" was their term, not mine, but it is accurate and easy to understand.

    When you use the term "at the far end" you are viewing in only one dimension. At the generic 4 way intersection, there are 4 directions. I understand that some of the systems use video, only because we do see videos of car accidents. But the pictures I've seen are snapshots. The vehicle is either in the box or it's not. Those in the box get the ticket, whether they are turning right on red, or proceeding through the intersection.

    Because of the gross injustice perpetrated by this scam, there are all sorts of people against it. Safety is not the consideration, and there are many ways to demonstrate that. Revenue IS the consideration, and there are many ways to demonstrate that.

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    Re: No Evidence Chicago Red Light Cameras Based on Safety -- System Made $71 Million

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Life is not fair. You'd better get used to it.
    Piss poor excuse for knowingly continuing and enabling said unfairness.
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

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    Re: No Evidence Chicago Red Light Cameras Based on Safety -- System Made $71 Million

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    Piss poor excuse for knowingly continuing and enabling said unfairness.
    That's where you and I disagree. It's not unfair. There's absolutely nothing unfair about ticketing people for breaking the law.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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