Victims shot after drugs handed over at Tennessee pharmacy, DA says

[digsbe]

NASHVILLE, Tenn. – Prosecutors say a Tennessee pharmacy owner killed during a robbery had handed over several bottles of oxycodone before he was shot to death.

Grainger County District Attorney General Jimmy Dunn made the comments Friday, one day after the owner of Down Home Pharmacy in Bean Station, a town in East Tennessee, was killed during the robbery. Police say a customer was also killed and two people were wounded.
A former Bean Station police officer, Jason Bryan Holt, has been charged with two counts of premeditated first-degree murder, two counts of attempted first degree murder, two counts of felony murder and one count of especially aggravated robbery.
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[/FONT]

Victims shot after drugs handed over at Tennessee pharmacy, DA says | Fox News

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]This really hits me hard. In all pharmacies I've worked for it was against company policy to bring a weapon to work for the purpose of self defense. There were no security guards and in the event of a robbery we were instructed to give robbers whatever they want and avoid all eye contact and hope that the robber chooses not to kill anyone and that compliance would most likely result in them leaving with stolen medications and no human lives being harmed.

The pharmacist and technicians were murdered execution style. They gave into his demands and were told to kneel down facing against the wall and were then shot and killed. Personally, had the pharmacist owned a gun or the staff had their own they could have defended themselves instead of being murdered unarmed execution style. This is a very very sad tragedy.[/FONT]

 

[CanadaJohn]

Victims shot after drugs handed over at Tennessee pharmacy, DA says | Fox News

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]This really hits me hard. In all pharmacies I've worked for it was against company policy to bring a weapon to work for the purpose of self defense. There were no security guards and in the event of a robbery we were instructed to give robbers whatever they want and avoid all eye contact and hope that the robber chooses not to kill anyone and that compliance would most likely result in them leaving with stolen medications and no human lives being harmed.

The pharmacist and technicians were murdered execution style. They gave into his demands and were told to kneel down facing against the wall and were then shot and killed. Personally, had the pharmacist owned a gun or the staff had their own they could have defended themselves instead of being murdered unarmed execution style. This is a very very sad tragedy.[/FONT]

I don't know what standard practice is in America, but here in Toronto I know that pharmacies have signs out front that indicate they do not keep certain drugs, like oxycodone, on the premises and you have to bring in your prescription and the drugs will be either delivered to your home or they will be delivered to the pharmacy later and you'll have to go back and pick them up. Having such drugs on the premises is like advertising you have crack or heroin or whatever and inviting a robbery and like in this case, worse.

 

[digsbe]

I don't know what standard practice is in America, but here in Toronto I know that pharmacies have signs out front that indicate they do not keep certain drugs, like oxycodone, on the premises and you have to bring in your prescription and the drugs will be either delivered to your home or they will be delivered to the pharmacy later and you'll have to go back and pick them up. Having such drugs on the premises is like advertising you have crack or heroin or whatever and inviting a robbery and like in this case, worse.

Here we don't advertise what prescription drugs we carry. Most pharmacies do stock Oxycodone and others but a pharmacist can exercise professional judgement in most cases and refuse a fill. We have a terrible prescription drug addiction/abuse problem. Steps are being taken to combat this, but it is still a big problem The DEA largely controls the dispensing of narcotics and scheduled medications.

 

[Fisher]

The killer was a former cop :shock: (seriously :shock: )

 

[digsbe]

This story is more in depth (local news) Victims in East Tennessee pharmacy shooting were shot execution style | wbir.com

He was convicted of burglary in 2006 stealing drugs from the police station. He was charged with domestic violence in 2009 but it was dismissed.

 

[notquiteright]

Victims shot after drugs handed over at Tennessee pharmacy, DA says | Fox News [FONT=Arial, sans-serif]This really hits me hard. In all pharmacies I've worked for it was against company policy to bring a weapon to work for the purpose of self defense. There were no security guards and in the event of a robbery we were instructed to give robbers whatever they want and avoid all eye contact and hope that the robber chooses not to kill anyone and that compliance would most likely result in them leaving with stolen medications and no human lives being harmed. The pharmacist and technicians were murdered execution style. They gave into his demands and were told to kneel down facing against the wall and were then shot and killed. Personally, had the pharmacist owned a gun or the staff had their own they could have defended themselves instead of being murdered unarmed execution style. This is a very very sad tragedy.[/FONT]

It is a common fallacy to think because you are armed you will not be killed if serious bad guys come to rob you. It isn't a one way range and the bad guys get a say. Unless the workers have a very clear indicator the bad guys were in fact bad guys and had time enough to present, or most likely go to where their weapons were kept they play catch-up and have ZERO assurance they can deliver an assault stopping SERIES of rounds per bad guy.

Lots of trained people, soldiers, cops, guards get catch flat footed all the time. busy workers with their heads down filling 'scripts may not look up/carefully enough in time.

These men came with intent to commit MURDER, that stacks the deck from druggie thief to cold blooded murderers. Given the national average is 3% CCW and even the highest level of CCW towns hover around 13% it is a bit much to think ALL the workers would be armed.

Now DO NOT try and twist what I say to mean I side with the bad guys or am with the 'gun' grabbers, how some ever the BEST scenario of an armed confrontation with these robbers would have been casualties on both sides, and worst case- the motion to bring the pistol out from under the long coat would have set off a massacre of the workers with just MAYBE fewer drugs stolen.

How ever you look at the Big Pharma drug addiction we have in this country one part will be those in the dispensing business are in the most danger compared to those up the food chain.

My condolences to the families.

 

[MaggieD]

Victims shot after drugs handed over at Tennessee pharmacy, DA says | Fox News

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]This really hits me hard. In all pharmacies I've worked for it was against company policy to bring a weapon to work for the purpose of self defense. There were no security guards and in the event of a robbery we were instructed to give robbers whatever they want and avoid all eye contact and hope that the robber chooses not to kill anyone and that compliance would most likely result in them leaving with stolen medications and no human lives being harmed.

The pharmacist and technicians were murdered execution style. They gave into his demands and were told to kneel down facing against the wall and were then shot and killed. Personally, had the pharmacist owned a gun or the staff had their own they could have defended themselves instead of being murdered unarmed execution style. This is a very very sad tragedy.[/FONT]

It is sad. Criminals figure out that "no witnesses" is safer. So witnesses are executed. If even one person in that store had had a gun, this story might have had a very different ending. At the very least? They would have gone down fighting instead of like dogs tethered to trees.

 

[Spartacus FPV]

]It is a common fallacy to think because you are armed you will not be killed[/B] if serious bad guys come to rob you. It isn't a one way range and the bad guys get a say. Unless the workers have a very clear indicator the bad guys were in fact bad guys and had time enough to present, or most likely go to where their weapons were kept they play catch-up and have ZERO assurance they can deliver an assault stopping SERIES of rounds per bad guy.

Lots of trained people, soldiers, cops, guards get catch flat footed all the time. busy workers with their heads down filling 'scripts may not look up/carefully enough in time.

These men came with intent to commit MURDER, that stacks the deck from druggie thief to cold blooded murderers. Given the national average is 3% CCW and even the highest level of CCW towns hover around 13% it is a bit much to think ALL the workers would be armed.

Now DO NOT try and twist what I say to mean I side with the bad guys or am with the 'gun' grabbers, how some ever the BEST scenario of an armed confrontation with these robbers would have been casualties on both sides, and worst case- the motion to bring the pistol out from under the long coat would have set off a massacre of the workers with just MAYBE fewer drugs stolen.

How ever you look at the Big Pharma drug addiction we have in this country one part will be those in the dispensing business are in the most danger compared to those up the food chain.

My condolences to the families.

What fallacy is that? What armed person has ever considered themselves invincible?

 

[Lutherf]

It is a common fallacy to think because you are armed you will not be killed if serious bad guys come to rob you. It isn't a one way range and the bad guys get a say. Unless the workers have a very clear indicator the bad guys were in fact bad guys and had time enough to present, or most likely go to where their weapons were kept they play catch-up and have ZERO assurance they can deliver an assault stopping SERIES of rounds per bad guy.

Lots of trained people, soldiers, cops, guards get catch flat footed all the time. busy workers with their heads down filling 'scripts may not look up/carefully enough in time.

These men came with intent to commit MURDER, that stacks the deck from druggie thief to cold blooded murderers. Given the national average is 3% CCW and even the highest level of CCW towns hover around 13% it is a bit much to think ALL the workers would be armed.

Now DO NOT try and twist what I say to mean I side with the bad guys or am with the 'gun' grabbers, how some ever the BEST scenario of an armed confrontation with these robbers would have been casualties on both sides, and worst case- the motion to bring the pistol out from under the long coat would have set off a massacre of the workers with just MAYBE fewer drugs stolen.

How ever you look at the Big Pharma drug addiction we have in this country one part will be those in the dispensing business are in the most danger compared to those up the food chain.

My condolences to the families.

Just to be clear, your position is that it's better to put the lives of innocent people at great risk by prohibiting firearms and if a few innocent folks get killed then that's just the way it has to be to insure that only criminals can have firearms....is that about right?

 

[MaggieD]

Just to be clear, your position is that it's better to put the lives of innocent people at great risk by prohibiting firearms and if a few innocent folks get killed then that's just the way it has to be to insure that only criminals can have firearms....is that about right?

That's everyone's position that wants to prohibit license to carry and enforce gun-free zones.

 

[GottaGo]

Bean Station is not far from me, I heard about this earlier. What a horrifying situation.

I don't know what the policies are regarding carrying in a pharmacy, but most businesses don't allow employees to carry during work hours. I know ours doesn't, except for office personnel.

The perp being an ex-LEO makes it all that much worse, especially killing them after they complied with his demands. Not too long ago, about 6 weeks ago?, one of our stores was robbed at gun point, the Manager complied and the thief had her laying on the floor face down. She said all she could do was pray that he didn't shoot her anyway. He didn't fortunately. (he was caught later after robbing another store of the same type)

 

[notquiteright]

What fallacy is that? What armed person has ever considered themselves invincible?

You're skewing the response-
Did you read Digsbe's comments? It is a refrain used at every shooting...if only a CCW had been there.... but the truth is the BEST one can hope for is perhaps hitting one or two of them, but ONLY if you can present before they do, and you can bet these guys would not have just run away... they came to kill.

He would have been correct to say something like perhaps they could have tried to defend themselves.

 

[notquiteright]

Just to be clear, your position is that it's better to put the lives of innocent people at great risk by prohibiting firearms and if a few innocent folks get killed then that's just the way it has to be to insure that only criminals can have firearms....is that about right?

LMAO... and I even predicted someone would attempt to twist what I said to be the above... :roll:

You ignored what I said to drag out your favorite dead horse to beat...

Just to be clear, quote where I said ANYTHING like that!

 

[Spartacus FPV]

You're skewing the response-
Did you read Digsbe's comments? It is a refrain used at every shooting...if only a CCW had been there.... but the truth is the BEST one can hope for is perhaps hitting one or two of them, but ONLY if you can present before they do, and you can bet these guys would not have just run away... they came to kill.

He would have been correct to say something like perhaps they could have tried to defend themselves.

When you claim that something is a fallacy, you should be prepared to cite the name of this formal fallacy and explain how it is in fact said fallacy.

 

[justabubba]

Victims shot after drugs handed over at Tennessee pharmacy, DA says | Fox News

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]This really hits me hard. In all pharmacies I've worked for it was against company policy to bring a weapon to work for the purpose of self defense. There were no security guards and in the event of a robbery we were instructed to give robbers whatever they want and avoid all eye contact and hope that the robber chooses not to kill anyone and that compliance would most likely result in them leaving with stolen medications and no human lives being harmed.

The pharmacist and technicians were murdered execution style. They gave into his demands and were told to kneel down facing against the wall and were then shot and killed. Personally, had the pharmacist owned a gun or the staff had their own they could have defended themselves instead of being murdered unarmed execution style. This is a very very sad tragedy.[/FONT]

when you get out of school you may need to open your own pharmacy which tolerates a ccw practice
not sure the outcome would be any different, but you would at least be able to take someone with you - hopefully not an innocent customer

or we could alternatively work to rid all handguns from the streets

 

[Surtr]

Victims shot after drugs handed over at Tennessee pharmacy, DA says | Fox News

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]This really hits me hard. In all pharmacies I've worked for it was against company policy to bring a weapon to work for the purpose of self defense. There were no security guards and in the event of a robbery we were instructed to give robbers whatever they want and avoid all eye contact and hope that the robber chooses not to kill anyone and that compliance would most likely result in them leaving with stolen medications and no human lives being harmed.

The pharmacist and technicians were murdered execution style. They gave into his demands and were told to kneel down facing against the wall and were then shot and killed. Personally, had the pharmacist owned a gun or the staff had their own they could have defended themselves instead of being murdered unarmed execution style. This is a very very sad tragedy.[/FONT]

Crap like this is why they should bring back the gallows.

 

[notquiteright]

When you claim that something is a fallacy, you should be prepared to cite the name of this formal fallacy and explain how it is in fact said fallacy.

Ummm who are you again? I didn't know the forum had some warped protocol police... :roll:

I said it the way 'I' wanted to, if you don't like it.....

Tuff titty... :2wave:

 

[Spartacus FPV]

Ummm who are you again?

A person educated in logic who knows when someone is claiming "fallacy" where there is none.

I didn't know the forum had some warped protocol police... :roll:

I don't need to be the weather man to tell you its raining, nor do I need authority to point out when you're making up logical fallacies.

I said it the way 'I' wanted to, if you don't like it.....

Tuff titty... :2wave:

A compelling argument, make up all the fallacies you want no one will take issue I'm sure. :roll:

Debate isn't a matter of liking an argument you ignoramus. Nor are the rules of logic, or having to source your claims, or back them up. If you claim I am guilty of an non-sequitur, but refuse to explain how my logic doesn't follow, what use is your claim?

I claim you're guilty of a fallacy! What fallacy? Who are you to ask?

I claim you're born of incest, to suggest otherwise is a new fallacy I made up, problem? Because you seem to be under the impression that anyone can claim anything, and who the **** is anyone else to suggest otherwise? "Who are you again?" As if the validity of your stupid argument depended on the notoriety of its critics :roll: What utter tripe, not quite educated are you?

 

[Crosscheck]

I don't know what standard practice is in America, but here in Toronto I know that pharmacies have signs out front that indicate they do not keep certain drugs, like oxycodone, on the premises and you have to bring in your prescription and the drugs will be either delivered to your home or they will be delivered to the pharmacy later and you'll have to go back and pick them up. Having such drugs on the premises is like advertising you have crack or heroin or whatever and inviting a robbery and like in this case, worse.

I think that is the way pharmacies are going to have to go in this country.

Having armed pharmacist is not a bad idea but it won't deter a drug addict. Even with armed guards banks still get robbed.

 

[Thrilla]

when you get out of school you may need to open your own pharmacy which tolerates a ccw practice
not sure the outcome would be any different, but you would at least be able to take someone with you - hopefully not an innocent customer

or we could alternatively work to rid all handguns from the streets

allowing people to defend themselves with a firearm is reasonable and doable... getting all handguns off the street is the stuff of fantasies.

 

[notquiteright]

A person educated in logic who knows when someone is claiming "fallacy" where there is none. I don't need to be the weather man to tell you its raining, nor do I need authority to point out when you're making up logical fallacies. A compelling argument, make up all the fallacies you want no one will take issue I'm sure. :roll: Debate isn't a matter of liking an argument you ignoramus. Nor are the rules of logic, or having to source your claims, or back them up. If you claim I am guilty of an non-sequitur, but refuse to explain how my logic doesn't follow, what use is your claim? I claim you're guilty of a fallacy! What fallacy? Who are you to ask? I claim you're born of incest, to suggest otherwise is a new fallacy I made up, problem? Because you seem to be under the impression that anyone can claim anything, and who the **** is anyone else to suggest otherwise? "Who are you again?" As if the validity of your stupid argument depended on the notoriety of its critics :roll: What utter tripe, not quite educated are you?

Wow, you sure are wrapped tight. Just because you think something is a fallacy doesn't make it so. Your attempting to move the debate to an armed man feeling invincible is not what I said. you make a different argument to rage against.

Far too often people think if one of the victims had been armed, or if a firearm was nearby the attack would have been averted. it was even more out on a limb to think everyone would have been armed and able to engage before being gunned down.

far more likely is if the bad guys are intent on murder and they get to pick the time to engage the CWW is in a very bad starting point. More so if the badguys had cased the joint.

Perhaps you should take a few deep breathes.

 

[DiAnna]

Nobody knows whether a CCW would have made a difference in this particular case. But it might have.

We certainly know the result of not having a CCW available. If I were in that store being told to kneel down and die, I'd rather have a gun in my bag and try to even the odds.

 

[justabubba]

allowing people to defend themselves with a firearm is reasonable and doable... getting all handguns off the street is the stuff of fantasies.

the perps had the employees under the gun
what is the likelihood having a concealed weapon would have changed the outcome of that incident

and if you will look at japan's experience, you will see that it was able to eliminate most hand guns in short order. that tends to discredit the notion that we cannot do the same in the USA

 

[Thrilla]

the perps had the employees under the gun
what is the likelihood having a concealed weapon would have changed the outcome of that incident

having a weapon may or may not have changed the outcome... the likelihood would range between 0 and 100%
not having a weapon to defend yourself offers no numbers ,though.. you are 100% at the mercy of the assailant.

and if you will look at japan's experience, you will see that it was able to eliminate most hand guns in short order. that tends to discredit the notion that we cannot do the same in the USA

oh sure, it's certainly possible to imitate japan's model here in the US.. i mean, you would have to rescind or violate a number of amendments, including the 2nd, 4th, and 5th, 8th, 9th,and 10th...and you would have to install an earnest police state....
of course, you would also have to go back in time and try to keep our gun culture from forming ( Japan doesn't have a historic gun culture)

you would have to deal with the fact that only the criminals have the guns
in Japan, it's the boryokudan.. here, we have organized crime, cartels, street gangs, and basic thugs.
(japan does allow a few folks ot have shotguns... but the hoops aren't generally worth jumping through, which is why very few attempt to get them)

as I said, disarmament is the stuff of fantasies.

 

[MaggieD]

and if you will look at japan's experience, you will see that it was able to eliminate most hand guns in short order. that tends to discredit the notion that we cannot do the same in the USA

It's that lousy old Second Amendment thingie. And that darned search-and-seizure ban. Yeppers!! We could eliminate most handguns in short order. All we have to do is rip up our Constitution.

We don't have to eliminate guns. We need to eliminate illegal guns. If the penalties for being caught with an illegal gun were strict enough, we could get them off the streets in five years. Unfortunately, we'd be broke building prisons -- and, even then, there's that pesky old Constitution thingie to worry about.