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Thread: Victims shot after drugs handed over at Tennessee pharmacy, DA says

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    Re: Victims shot after drugs handed over at Tennessee pharmacy, DA says

    Quote Originally Posted by Lachean View Post
    A person educated in logic who knows when someone is claiming "fallacy" where there is none. I don't need to be the weather man to tell you its raining, nor do I need authority to point out when you're making up logical fallacies. A compelling argument, make up all the fallacies you want no one will take issue I'm sure. Debate isn't a matter of liking an argument you ignoramus. Nor are the rules of logic, or having to source your claims, or back them up. If you claim I am guilty of an non-sequitur, but refuse to explain how my logic doesn't follow, what use is your claim? I claim you're guilty of a fallacy! What fallacy? Who are you to ask? I claim you're born of incest, to suggest otherwise is a new fallacy I made up, problem? Because you seem to be under the impression that anyone can claim anything, and who the **** is anyone else to suggest otherwise? "Who are you again?" As if the validity of your stupid argument depended on the notoriety of its critics What utter tripe, not quite educated are you?
    Wow, you sure are wrapped tight. Just because you think something is a fallacy doesn't make it so. Your attempting to move the debate to an armed man feeling invincible is not what I said. you make a different argument to rage against.

    Far too often people think if one of the victims had been armed, or if a firearm was nearby the attack would have been averted. it was even more out on a limb to think everyone would have been armed and able to engage before being gunned down.

    far more likely is if the bad guys are intent on murder and they get to pick the time to engage the CWW is in a very bad starting point. More so if the badguys had cased the joint.

    Perhaps you should take a few deep breathes.

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    Re: Victims shot after drugs handed over at Tennessee pharmacy, DA says

    Nobody knows whether a CCW would have made a difference in this particular case. But it might have.

    We certainly know the result of not having a CCW available. If I were in that store being told to kneel down and die, I'd rather have a gun in my bag and try to even the odds.

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    Re: Victims shot after drugs handed over at Tennessee pharmacy, DA says

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    allowing people to defend themselves with a firearm is reasonable and doable... getting all handguns off the street is the stuff of fantasies.
    the perps had the employees under the gun
    what is the likelihood having a concealed weapon would have changed the outcome of that incident

    and if you will look at japan's experience, you will see that it was able to eliminate most hand guns in short order. that tends to discredit the notion that we cannot do the same in the USA
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    Re: Victims shot after drugs handed over at Tennessee pharmacy, DA says

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    the perps had the employees under the gun
    what is the likelihood having a concealed weapon would have changed the outcome of that incident
    having a weapon may or may not have changed the outcome... the likelihood would range between 0 and 100%
    not having a weapon to defend yourself offers no numbers ,though.. you are 100% at the mercy of the assailant.

    and if you will look at japan's experience, you will see that it was able to eliminate most hand guns in short order. that tends to discredit the notion that we cannot do the same in the USA
    oh sure, it's certainly possible to imitate japan's model here in the US.. i mean, you would have to rescind or violate a number of amendments, including the 2nd, 4th, and 5th, 8th, 9th,and 10th...and you would have to install an earnest police state....
    of course, you would also have to go back in time and try to keep our gun culture from forming ( Japan doesn't have a historic gun culture)

    you would have to deal with the fact that only the criminals have the guns
    in Japan, it's the boryokudan.. here, we have organized crime, cartels, street gangs, and basic thugs.
    (japan does allow a few folks ot have shotguns... but the hoops aren't generally worth jumping through, which is why very few attempt to get them)

    as I said, disarmament is the stuff of fantasies.

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    Re: Victims shot after drugs handed over at Tennessee pharmacy, DA says

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    and if you will look at japan's experience, you will see that it was able to eliminate most hand guns in short order. that tends to discredit the notion that we cannot do the same in the USA
    It's that lousy old Second Amendment thingie. And that darned search-and-seizure ban. Yeppers!! We could eliminate most handguns in short order. All we have to do is rip up our Constitution.

    We don't have to eliminate guns. We need to eliminate illegal guns. If the penalties for being caught with an illegal gun were strict enough, we could get them off the streets in five years. Unfortunately, we'd be broke building prisons -- and, even then, there's that pesky old Constitution thingie to worry about.
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    Re: Victims shot after drugs handed over at Tennessee pharmacy, DA says

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    when you get out of school you may need to open your own pharmacy which tolerates a ccw practice
    not sure the outcome would be any different, but you would at least be able to take someone with you - hopefully not an innocent customer

    or we could alternatively work to rid all handguns from the streets
    false dichotomy
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    Re: Victims shot after drugs handed over at Tennessee pharmacy, DA says

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    It is sad. Criminals figure out that "no witnesses" is safer. So witnesses are executed. If even one person in that store had had a gun, this story might have had a very different ending. At the very least? They would have gone down fighting instead of like dogs tethered to trees.
    And they could have been railroaded by the pigs like Jerome Ersland was. And then got convicted of murder by a jury of left-wing idiots simply for defending themselves against robbers.

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    Re: Victims shot after drugs handed over at Tennessee pharmacy, DA says

    The Canadian model CanadaJohn referred to seems the most reasonable...any drugs with high street values should be in a time controlled safe, dispensed only after hours when the pharmacy is securely locked up, and held for pickup the next day or mailed.

    As for CCW, it might decrease the number of pharmacy robberies, but I suspect it would increase the number of killings. Desperate junkies will generally leave once they have what they want, but if they suspect they will meet armed resistance, the most desperate may just march in guns blazing, and perhaps leave one alive to show them where the oxy is located.

    Believe it or not I used to work with a guy who got arrested after a five hour standoff with cops when they tried to arrest him for bumping off pharmacies.

    Pharmacy Robber Charged With 6 Robberies, More Charges Expected - Acadiana's Multi-Media News Station

    ...and given the timeline, he had to have been actively engaged in his crime spree while I was working with him.
    The morality of abortion is not a religious belief, any more than the morality of slavery, apartheid, rape, larceny, murder or arson is a religious belief. These are norms of the natural law of mankind and can be legislated even in a completely religionless society.

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    Re: Victims shot after drugs handed over at Tennessee pharmacy, DA says

    Digs...I understand policy...but if it was me, Id go to work with some form of firearm (or tear gas if someone is opposed to firearms) in a shoulder holster type rig every day of the week, especially in that field. Some good basic rules the FBI teaches...if you are ever in a hostage situation, have seen the perpetrators face, and he tells you to turn around, kneel down, or go into a back room, you had best be making plans for some sort of gambit because odds are high ****s about to get really really real.

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    Re: Victims shot after drugs handed over at Tennessee pharmacy, DA says

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post

    Victims shot after drugs handed over at Tennessee pharmacy, DA says | Fox News

    This really hits me hard. In all pharmacies I've worked for it was against company policy to bring a weapon to work for the purpose of self defense. There were no security guards and in the event of a robbery we were instructed to give robbers whatever they want and avoid all eye contact and hope that the robber chooses not to kill anyone and that compliance would most likely result in them leaving with stolen medications and no human lives being harmed.

    The pharmacist and technicians were murdered execution style. They gave into his demands and were told to kneel down facing against the wall and were then shot and killed. Personally, had the pharmacist owned a gun or the staff had their own they could have defended themselves instead of being murdered unarmed execution style. This is a very very sad tragedy.
    So let us get this straight. You are using one incident with no knowledge of whether or not a gun would have done anything to emotionalize the argument and politicize a tragedy? Just want to make sure we all know that you are doing all of that before we start here.

    One could make things a lot safer and harder for the criminal by certain policies. Armed robberies of lonely gas stations used to make big money in some areas, and a gun was seen as the only way to protect a business owner. however, systems of safes, multiple workers, making sure cash is not on premises in large amounts, better police patrols, and making sure criminals know there is no real gain from the risk have done far more to lower armed robberies on gas stations than any gun in the hand of an untrained clerk who is easily distracted with their job. You arfe a station clerk with lots of other duties. Wandering around with a gun at the ready pretty much makes doing other things hard. When you lower your gun and are not ready you are open to be killed by a person like you are complaining about because they already were going to kill people.

    There are some better ways to do things. Do not keep powerful narcotic type of prescription meds on site. Or keep them in some sort of automated safe dispenser that the employee cannot open that spits out based on a time limit. This doesn't sound like a CVS or walmart pharmacy because basically you would have other employees to worry about an alarm trigger. So perhaps a couple of extra employees might be in order. make sure to put up some advertisements telling people things like Oxy are smoply not available within a certain time limit. These sorts of things have far better effect on things like armed theft, and even employee theft than having a gun.

    Oh, I really do want to repeat in this case a gun would seem to have done absolutely no good for anyone as the robber was ready to execute the people there. You run under the delusion that your average person is ready to kill or even face the reprocussions of taking another persons life. it is often said by gun owners that you better be prepared to pay at least 25k if you ever use your gun in self defense and this is because you will face police investigations and charges and need a lawyer. That is if you are lucky and you do not get things blown up into some national case like zimmerman. If he is innocent all the money in the world wouldn't help him to go back to his life. The reality is a p[repped killer has the drop on you. You will hesitate. you will question. They will not and that means you die anyway. Your gun becomes nothing more than an extra for the killer.

    Thank you for the emotional argument that is not even statistically sound. It is but a simple anecdotal argument with no actual facts or reality behind it. You are like that guy who says he won't wear a seat belt because he heard that one time this one guy died from wearing one. You have not proved that much since we do not even know if the pharmacist would have shot the robber or even had time to pull the gun.

    But i am sure the gun people will be all in here claiming crazy superhero with guns save the world.

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