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Thread: NBC: Holder OK'd Search Warrant For Fox News Reporter's Private Emails, Official Says

  1. #111
    global liberation

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    Re: NBC: Holder OK'd Search Warrant For Fox News Reporter's Private Emails, Official

    MG, you wanna know why people in the ME hate the US? It's simple: because they are told to by freedom fearing totalitarian governments. They are taught it in school. They are taught it in mosques. They are taught it on TV and in the arts. They are taught it by Farfur the mouse and every respected (crony) they know. And you know what? No amount of ass kissing is gonna change that. No amount of isolationism and no amount of tolerance will ever change that. That will not change until those people are free, until they have human and civil rights. And until that day, me say war.

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    Re: NBC: Holder OK'd Search Warrant For Fox News Reporter's Private Emails, Official

    Quote Originally Posted by Middleground View Post
    You make my point quite nicely, Fenton. Thanks.
    That you most likely struggle with reading comprehension issues ??

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    Re: NBC: Holder OK'd Search Warrant For Fox News Reporter's Private Emails, Official

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    1. I think we can agree that using a crime committed by individuals within a group to demonize the entire group is not legit. Mideast people are capable of understanding this.
    Most will. Some will not.


    2. Compared to genocide and institutionalized rape, Abu was a Saddam pre-school. Iraqis know this. It's not as if they didn't know about the genocide and other atrocities.
    Difference is, Americans claim to be fair, rational, good and free. When Saddam tortures, it's not a surprise. When Americans torture, it should be a surprise. Make you look like hypocrites, especially when you government advocates it.

    It's like you don't believe Iraqis are capable of critical thought or perspective in assigning their political views.
    See above.
    No men are anywhere, and Im allowed to go in, because Im the owner of the pageant and therefore Im inspecting it, Trump said... Is everyone OK? You know, theyre standing there with no clothes. Is everybody OK? And you see these incredible looking women, and so I sort of get away with things like that.

  4. #114
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    Re: NBC: Holder OK'd Search Warrant For Fox News Reporter's Private Emails, Official

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    MG, you wanna know why people in the ME hate the US? It's simple: because they are told to by freedom fearing totalitarian governments. They are taught it in school. They are taught it in mosques. They are taught it on TV and in the arts. They are taught it by Farfur the mouse and every respected (crony) they know.
    Yes, to some degree, I do believe this to be true. I remember watching a 60 Minute piece on American hatred in Saudi many years ago, where teens were open about sharing their hate for the West.

    And you know what? No amount of ass kissing is gonna change that. No amount of isolationism and no amount of tolerance will ever change that. That will not change until those people are free, until they have human and civil rights. And until that day, me say war.
    I dunno. Funny thing, in your prior post you give them credit for being able to see beyond re. Abu Ghraib, yet not when it comes to the propaganda they are subjected to. I think many do see beyond what they are spoon fed, but I do believe that recent actions by American Administrations (at least Dubya and Obama) have given them reason to pause. I do believe they can be turned around... look at how the climate has changed in the past 5 years alone.
    No men are anywhere, and Im allowed to go in, because Im the owner of the pageant and therefore Im inspecting it, Trump said... Is everyone OK? You know, theyre standing there with no clothes. Is everybody OK? And you see these incredible looking women, and so I sort of get away with things like that.

  5. #115
    global liberation

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    Re: NBC: Holder OK'd Search Warrant For Fox News Reporter's Private Emails, Official

    Quote Originally Posted by Middleground View Post
    I dunno. Funny thing, in your prior post you give them credit for being able to see beyond re. Abu Ghraib, yet not when it comes to the propaganda they are subjected to.
    I think there is a world of difference between the propaganda generated by Abu and the propaganda of a totalitarian regime over generations. To pretend that Abu, not even a drip in the ocean, is significant is to ignore almost all of reality. While I understand the limitations of operating under crushing totalitarian oppression including absolute control of (mis)information to the point of brainwashing, I do not account such disability to Abu. Blaming Abu is dismissing generations of horrible tyranny. You are blaming a handful of criminals instead of a genocidal dictator and inhuman tyranny for people being ****ed up.

    Or... perhaps... you are justifying the hate of Americans based on the actions of a couple criminals. If you find that acceptable, then I'm not sure where we've to go. Except to say that you must not have a problem with labeling all Muslims terrorists.
    Last edited by ecofarm; 05-29-13 at 08:11 PM.

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    Re: NBC: Holder OK'd Search Warrant For Fox News Reporter's Private Emails, Official

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    I think there is a world of difference between the propaganda generated by Abu and the propaganda of a totalitarian regime over generations. To pretend that Abu, not even a drip in the ocean, is significant is to ignore almost all of reality. While I understand the limitations of operating under crushing totalitarian oppression including absolute control of (mis)information to the point of brainwashing, I do not account such disability to Abu. Blaming Abu is dismissing generations of horrible tyranny. You are blaming a handful of criminals instead of a genocidal dictator and inhuman tyranny for people being ****ed up.

    Or... perhaps... you are justifying the hate of Americans based on the actions of a couple criminals. If you find that acceptable, then I'm not sure where we've to go. Except to say that you must not have a problem with labeling all Muslims terrorists.
    It's not just Abu Ghraib. How would you feel if you had lost a loved one because they decided to bomb your state? Over a hundred thousand of Iraqi civilians have lost their lives at the hands of American bombs since 2004, yet the government still had the gall to call themselves "liberators." That is not winning friends and it's no drop in the bucket.
    No men are anywhere, and Im allowed to go in, because Im the owner of the pageant and therefore Im inspecting it, Trump said... Is everyone OK? You know, theyre standing there with no clothes. Is everybody OK? And you see these incredible looking women, and so I sort of get away with things like that.

  7. #117
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    Re: NBC: Holder OK'd Search Warrant For Fox News Reporter's Private Emails, Official

    Quote Originally Posted by Middleground View Post
    It's not just Abu Ghraib. How would you feel if you had lost a loved one because they decided to bomb your state? Over a hundred thousand of Iraqi civilians have lost their lives at the hands of American bombs since 2004, yet the government still had the gall to call themselves "liberators." That is not winning friends and it's no drop in the bucket.
    Considering that Saddam killed 500k in the war vs. Iran, 200k in genocide against the Kurds, 50k genocide against Marsh Arabs and 400k starving children by selling food, it's not so much gall.

    I dunno how you figure that deposing a twice genocidal dictator (who twice invaded neighbors) that has institutionalized rape is blood-free business.

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    Re: NBC: Holder OK'd Search Warrant For Fox News Reporter's Private Emails, Official

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Considering that Saddam killed 500k in the war vs. Iran, 200k in genocide against the Kurds, 50k genocide against Marsh Arabs and 400k starving children by selling food, it's not so much gall.

    I dunno how you figure that deposing a twice genocidal dictator that has institutionalized rape is blood-free business.
    Let me say it again, this time more direct and simple:

    You're supposed to be the good guys.
    No men are anywhere, and Im allowed to go in, because Im the owner of the pageant and therefore Im inspecting it, Trump said... Is everyone OK? You know, theyre standing there with no clothes. Is everybody OK? And you see these incredible looking women, and so I sort of get away with things like that.

  9. #119
    global liberation

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    Re: NBC: Holder OK'd Search Warrant For Fox News Reporter's Private Emails, Official

    Quote Originally Posted by Middleground View Post
    Let me say it again, this time more direct and simple:

    You're supposed to be the good guys.
    Let me say it again, this time more direct and simple:

    Freedom is not free.

    Go ask the Kurds, victims of chemical genocide, towns of 10k at a time, if they were liberated.

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    Re: NBC: Holder OK'd Search Warrant For Fox News Reporter's Private Emails, Official

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Let me say it again, this time more direct and simple:

    Freedom is not free.

    Go ask the Kurds, victims of chemical genocide, towns of 10k at a time, if they were liberated.
    The Kurds were victims of American action/inaction as well.


    Many Iraqi and American critics accused President George H. W. Bush and his administration of encouraging and abandoning the rebellion after halting UN Coalition forces at Iraq's southern border with Kuwait at the end of the Gulf War.[14][34] In 1996, Colin Powell, then-Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, admitted in his book My American Journey that but Bush's rhetoric "may have given encouragement to the rebels" but "our practical intention was to leave Baghdad enough power to survive as a threat to an Iran that remained bitterly hostile toward the United States."[9] Coalition Commander Norman Schwarzkopf, Jr has expressed regret for negotiating a ceasefire agreement that allowed Iraq to keep using helicopters, but also suggested a move to support the uprisings would have empowered Iran.[38] In 2006, Najmaldin Karim, president of the Washington Kurdish Institute, called it a "betrayal of Iraq", blaming the policy of "a dangerous illusion of stability in the Middle East, a 'stability' bought with the blood of Middle Easterners and that produced such horrors as the massive 1991 bloodletting of Iraqis who sought to overthrow Saddam Hussein."[39]
    Soon after the uprisings began, fears of a disintegrating Iraq led the Bush Administration to distance itself from the rebels. American military officials downplayed the significance of the revolts and spelled out a policy of non-intervention in Iraq's internal affairs. Then-U.S. Secretary of Defense Dick Cheney said as the uprisings began: "I'm not sure whose side you'd want to be on."[9] On March 5, Rear Admiral John Michael McConnell, Director of Intelligence for the Joint Chiefs of Staff, acknowledged "chaotic and spontaneous" uprisings were under way in 13 cities of Iraq, but stated the Pentagon's view that Saddam would prevail because of the rebels' "lack of organization and leadership." On the same day, Cheney said "it would be very difficult for us to hold the coalition together for any particular course of action dealing with internal Iraqi politics, and I don't think, at this point, our writ extends to trying to move inside Iraq."[40] U.S. Major General Martin Brandtner, deputy director of operations for the Joint Chiefs of Staff, added that "there is no move on the [part of] U.S. forces...to let any weapons slip through [to the rebels], or to play any role whatsoever in fomenting or assisting any side."[41] Consequently, U.S. soldiers still in southern Iraq blew up enormous stockpile of weapons to prevent them from falling into hands of the opposition, blocked rebels from advancing onto Baghdad and actively disarmed some rebel forces. According to Middle East expert William B. Quandt, U.S. forces actually "let one Iraqi division go through [their] lines to get to Basra because the United States did not want the regime to collapse."[28] The U.S. Department of State spokesman Richard Boucher said on March 6, "We don't think that outside powers should be interfering in the internal affairs of Iraq."[42] The Bush Administration accused Iran of sending arms to the rebels[20] and sternly warned Iraqi authorities on March 7 against the use of chemical weapons during the unrest, but equivocated use of helicopter gunships.[14] On April 2, in a carefully crafted statement, U.S. State Department spokeswoman Margaret Tutwiler said: "We never, ever, stated as either a military or a political goal of the coalition or the international community the removal of Saddam Hussein."[43] President George H. W. Bush himself insisted three days later, just as the Iraqi loyalist forces were putting down the last resistance in the cities:
    I made clear from the very beginning that it was not an objective of the coalition or the United States to overthrow Saddam Hussein. So I don't think the Shiites in the south, those who are unhappy with Saddam in Baghdad, or the Kurds in the north ever felt that the United States would come to their assistance to overthrow this man...I have not misled anybody about the intentions of the United States of America, or has any other coalition partner, all of whom to my knowledge agree with me in this position.[44]
    The U.S. abandonment of the 1991 revolution was attributed by many analysts to the fact that the sceptical Iraqi Shia population have not welcomed the U.S.-led coalition forces during the 2003 invasion of Iraq the way some officials of George W. Bush administration had predicted before the war began, remaining reluctant to rise up against Saddam until Baghdad fell.[9] In 2011, the U.S. ambassador to Iraq, James F. Jeffrey, officially apologized to Iraqi politicians and southern tribal leaders for the U.S. inaction in 1991. Adel Abdul Mahdi, a top Iraqi Shia political leader, commented: "At the least, from what we are facing now, this would have been a much better solution than the solution of 2003. The role of Iraqs people would have been fundamental, not like in 2003." A spokesman for a top Shia religious leader, Ayatollah Basheer Hussain Najafi, said that "the apology of the U.S. has come too late, and does not change what happened. The apology is not going to bring back to the widows their husbands, and bereaved mothers their sons and brothers that they lost in the massacre that followed the uprising."[38]
    1991 uprisings in Iraq - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    No men are anywhere, and Im allowed to go in, because Im the owner of the pageant and therefore Im inspecting it, Trump said... Is everyone OK? You know, theyre standing there with no clothes. Is everybody OK? And you see these incredible looking women, and so I sort of get away with things like that.

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