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Thread: Boy Scouts vote to welcome gay members

  1. #531
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    Re: Boy Scouts vote to welcome gay members

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Another awful argument, Captain. The actions of the founders and the SC after the Constitution was made the law of the land has not bearing on what words mean and what the clauses were intended to do. Even in the Constitution there was winners and losers, so the desires of the losers has no bearing on what was actually agreed upon when those individuals put their name on the document.
    Which is precisely why, as I said, intent is fairly irrelevant. The Consitution was never mean to be rigid. The general nature of many of the provisions demonstrate that. Beyond that, we have no idea as to the actual intent of the "winners" since even the "winners" were not completely unified. They were not of one mindset.

    Tell me, captain. If I was give you the duty of putting down your philosophy and you chose words carefully to convey the message you want, but as soon as I get my hands on your philosophy I start to redefine the words written and ignore your intent to make it my own. Would that still put out the message you wanted or would it simply put out mine? If I was to in turn follow this philosophy myself with these now redefined words would I actually be following your philosophy or would I just be following my own? Do you see what I'm saying here? It's important we maintain the meaning of clauses and words as they were written so that we actually follow the document meant to restrict us instead of simply following something we find will do whatever we want.
    If I create a philosophy, my expectation is that whoever follows it will use it's basic tenets and inside those tenets add to it parts of themselves based on them and changing situations. None of us are mindless drones nor do we live in a vacuum. The Constitution is as such. It creates a set of tenets, a structure. Working within that structure, future people make it their own... as we have seen countless times, both based on themselves and based on change. Doing so does not alter the basic tenets of the document.

    That has nothing to do with intent, you know. That has to do with desires of man much like it does today.
    What it speaks to is the lack of relevancy of intent.

    And I already told you this is wrong. There were in fact winners and losers and like any other law there is an intent behind each clause.
    And I already explained how it is not wrong and have clarified the "winners" issue.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
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    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  2. #532
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    Re: Boy Scouts vote to welcome gay members

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Staying to one interpretation is not rigid, but logical and correct.
    No, it is rigid. The generalized nature of parts of the document demonstrate how other than a general sense, intent is not relevant. It is not logical to dictate that something general is actually specific.

    When you write a document the meaning you put behind those words is what others should understand and follow. Yes, that means in at least part we should use definitions of words from 1787, not 2013.
    Not if you are going to use the document in 2013. At that point, original intent because far less important in any kind of specific way.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  3. #533
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    Re: Boy Scouts vote to welcome gay members

    Quote Originally Posted by AlabamaPaul View Post
    The Constitution provides for the basic structure of our government, and was not meant to be interpreted to make it mean what any one individual or group thinks it should mean. There is a process to amend it, but without doing so any expansion of power is out of bounds IMV...
    I agree with the statement I placed in bold. In fact, I think I've been saying that. That's why interpretation in order to address issues that are not specifically covered, but are addressed in a general way is appropriate.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  4. #534
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    Re: Boy Scouts vote to welcome gay members

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    I agree with the statement I placed in bold. In fact, I think I've been saying that. That's why interpretation in order to address issues that are not specifically covered, but are addressed in a general way is appropriate.
    It might be how those issues are addressed that become contentious...
    I don't often change my signature, but this was just too over the top to let anyone forget with what this country is up against...
    Quote Originally Posted by James D Hill View Post
    I am for gay marriage because it ticks off Jesus freaks and social conservatives. Gays are also good voters because the vote for my side so I fight next to them.

  5. #535
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    Re: Boy Scouts vote to welcome gay members

    Quote Originally Posted by AlabamaPaul View Post
    It might be how those issues are addressed that become contentious...
    I would agree with that. However, contention is often part of the political process. The Constitutional Convention wasn't one made up solely of flowers and rainbows.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  6. #536
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    Re: Boy Scouts vote to welcome gay members

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    [/FONT][/COLOR]BBC News - Boy Scouts of America votes to ease ban on gay members

    Good for the Scouts.

    And I eagerly await the freakishly hateful statements that will inevitably come from people like the Family Research Council.[/FONT][/COLOR]
    Most scout troops are faith based and many packs will succeed from BOA.

  7. #537
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    Re: Boy Scouts vote to welcome gay members

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Nick View Post
    Most scout troops are faith based and many packs will succeed from BOA.
    good for them, they wont be missed and are free to do so.
    In fact i encourage it, they should make their own club and advertise it they are ant-gay.
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  8. #538
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    Re: Boy Scouts vote to welcome gay members

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    good for them, they wont be missed and are free to do so.
    In fact i encourage it, they should make their own club and advertise it they are ant-gay.
    Since the scouts has been losing popularity over the years, I can't imagine that the heartland is anything but their main area of participation. So that could actually cause some trouble for them

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    Re: Boy Scouts vote to welcome gay members

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    Since the scouts has been losing popularity over the years, I can't imagine that the heartland is anything but their main area of participation. So that could actually cause some trouble for them
    if this turns out true IMO id fine it very sad for this country and if it was up to me id rather go out of business supporting equality than exist in bigotry/discrimination.
    This space is currently owned by The Great Winchester, stay tuned for future messages!
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    Re: Boy Scouts vote to welcome gay members

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    if this turns out true IMO id fine it very sad for this country and if it was up to me id rather go out of business supporting equality than exist in bigotry/discrimination.
    as someone mentioned earlier, they were going to get screwed on this no matter what way they went.

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