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Thread: Boy Scouts vote to welcome gay members

  1. #441
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    Re: Boy Scouts vote to welcome gay members

    Quote Originally Posted by Van Basten View Post
    Long as they decided for themselves and didn't do it simply because of social pressure. They had all right to ban gays, but one more step for equality, right?

    Now, I don't have to hear about this again. Lovely, we can move on.
    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    ... are there people who think it will be the end of it?

    Why would anyone want it to be the end of it?
    The post I was responding to IIRC

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    Re: Boy Scouts vote to welcome gay members

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    No, an appeal to authority does not beg the question if the authority IS the/an authority on the issue. If one wants to use Einstein when discussing Physics or Mathematics, an opponent claiming an appeal to authority has no basis with which to make that claim. If they are using Shakespeare when discussing Physics or Mathematics, then the appeal to authority logical fallacy is an appropriate confrontation, attacking the logic of the claim. Einstein may or may not be right on an issue of Physics or Mathematics, but one cannot dismiss him solely on his position. One CAN dismiss Shakespeare.
    well, the dynamics are a bit different when we are talking about legal precedent and SC rulings. Because their expert views do establish how law will be applied. So even if their reasoning is wrong, which you are still free to disagree with, they do establish the facts on how our legal system operates

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    Re: Boy Scouts vote to welcome gay members

    Quote Originally Posted by Fisher View Post
    The post I was responding to IIRC
    It is (probably) the end of this particular issue. There are others that remain.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
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    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

  4. #444
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    Re: Boy Scouts vote to welcome gay members

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    The funny is that I have gotten nothing wrong in this entire thread.

    Business is not excluded from having the right to association or the right to not be an involuntary servant.
    The fourteenth amendment does not deal with private enterprise, but only the state. Therefore, the SC is wrong.
    Property rights does include the right to control access.

    Everything I said here is fact. The Civil rights bill is unconstitutional.

    If anyone doubts me they can look for the following..

    Find where the fourteenth amendment deals with private enterprise.
    Find where business is excluded from the right to association.
    Find where business is excluded from the right to not be an involuntary servant.

    I'll wait..
    Wow....the scary thing is you wrong about almost everything....yet you think you are right, so there is no use in trying to educate you.

    You should start with educating yourself about the 14th Amendment, which makes Federal Constitutional rights applicable to the states....which includes businesses and entities that operate within the states. You are completely naïve if you believe that the Constitution does not apply to private enterprise.

    You may wait.....but you shouldn't. You seriously need to educate yourself, because you haven't a clue what you are talking about.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: Boy Scouts vote to welcome gay members

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Wow....the scary thing is you wrong about almost everything....yet you think you are right, so there is no use in trying to educate you.

    You should start with educating yourself about the 14th Amendment, which makes Federal Constitutional rights applicable to the states....which includes businesses and entities that operate within the states. You are completely naïve if you believe that the Constitution does not apply to private enterprise.

    You may wait.....but you shouldn't. You seriously need to educate yourself, because you haven't a clue what you are talking about.
    I'm not so sure, Disney. I think the issue with the Civil Rights Act of 1964 is that it used both the 14th Amendment and the Commerce Clause as it's Constitutional basis. I think if it ONLY used the 14th Amendment, it would have had some serious Constitutional problems. Ultimately, though, it all comes down to how interpretation has changed over time.
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  6. #446
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    Re: Boy Scouts vote to welcome gay members

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Wow....the scary thing is you wrong about almost everything....yet you think you are right, so there is no use in trying to educate you.

    You should start with educating yourself about the 14th Amendment, which makes Federal Constitutional rights applicable to the states....which includes businesses and entities that operate within the states. You are completely naïve if you believe that the Constitution does not apply to private enterprise.
    Yes, that wasn't my point. The fourteenth amendment is a restriction on states, not people or business. This is the line they used against business...

    No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
    Have fun figuring it out. Tell me, how do you go from no state shall deprive people of life, liberty or property, all the way to no business should deny people on the basis of race? Anyway, good luck figuring out the logic.

  7. #447
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    Re: Boy Scouts vote to welcome gay members

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    I'm not so sure, Disney. I think the issue with the Civil Rights Act of 1964 is that it used both the 14th Amendment and the Commerce Clause as it's Constitutional basis. I think if it ONLY used the 14th Amendment, it would have had some serious Constitutional problems. Ultimately, though, it all comes down to how interpretation has changed over time.
    You are correct....but that isn't really the issue. The commerce clause is yet another way that the states are bound by the Federal Constitution. The end result is that businesses are not free to discriminate just because they want to.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: Boy Scouts vote to welcome gay members

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    I'm not so sure, Disney. I think the issue with the Civil Rights Act of 1964 is that it used both the 14th Amendment and the Commerce Clause as it's Constitutional basis. I think if it ONLY used the 14th Amendment, it would have had some serious Constitutional problems. Ultimately, though, it all comes down to how interpretation has changed over time.
    That is still crap for two reasons

    1. The commerce clause only deals with trade disputes between the listed members

    and more importantly...

    2. The commerce clause does not trump the 1st or 13th amendment.

    I left off the commerce clause argument because frankly it's even dumber.

  9. #449
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    Re: Boy Scouts vote to welcome gay members

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Yes, that wasn't my point. The fourteenth amendment is a restriction on states, not people or business. This is the line they used against business...



    Have fun figuring it out. Tell me, how do you go from no state shall deprive people of life, liberty or property, all the way to no business should deny people on the basis of race? Anyway, good luck figuring out the logic.
    The logic is simple....IF you understand Constitutional law. You seem to want to engage in some Ann Rynd twisting of the Constitution to try to meet what you want the rules to be. Sorry.....but the answers are pretty easy and clear for those who want to see.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: Boy Scouts vote to welcome gay members

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    The logic is simple....IF you understand Constitutional law. You seem to want to engage in some Ann Rynd twisting of the Constitution to try to meet what you want the rules to be. Sorry.....but the answers are pretty easy and clear for those who want to see.
    LOL! I'm twisting? Did you ever read the decision? They raped the constitution with that turd.

    Btw, I noticed you ignored my challenge. Allow me to repeat the challenge for you.

    How do you go from no state shall deprive people of life, liberty or property, all the way to no business shall deny people on the basis of race?

    Do you know why you can't figure it out? Because there is no logic to it.
    Last edited by Henrin; 05-25-13 at 10:49 PM.

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