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Thread: Boy Scouts vote to welcome gay members

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    Re: Boy Scouts vote to welcome gay members

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Is that an argument?
    It's a fact
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Boy Scouts vote to welcome gay members

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Wrong. It is perfectly constitutional for the govt to prohibit businesses that engage in commerce from discriminating on the basis sexual orientation
    It appears that the U.S. Congress has addressed this issue:

    Sec. 108.6 Equal access.

    (a) General. Consistent with the requirements of paragraph (b) of
    this section, no covered entity shall deny equal access or a fair
    opportunity to meet to, or discriminate against, any group officially
    affiliated with the Boy Scouts or officially affiliated with any other
    Title 36 youth group that requests to conduct a meeting within that
    covered entity's designated open forum or limited public forum.
    No
    covered entity shall deny that access or opportunity or discriminate
    for reasons including the membership or leadership criteria or oath of
    allegiance to God and country of the Boy Scouts or of the Title 36
    youth group.
    (b) Specific requirements. (1) Meetings. Any group officially
    affiliated with the Boy Scouts or officially affiliated with any other
    Title 36 youth group that requests to conduct a meeting in the covered
    entity's designated open forum or limited public forum must be given
    equal access to school premises or facilities to conduct meetings.
    (2) Benefits and services. Any group officially affiliated with the
    Boy Scouts or officially affiliated with any other Title 36 youth group
    that requests to conduct a meeting as described in paragraph (b)(1) of
    this section must be given equal access to any other benefits and
    services provided to one or more outside youth or community groups that
    are allowed to meet in that same forum. These benefits and services may
    include, but are not necessarily limited to, school-related means of
    communication, such as bulletin board notices and literature
    distribution, and recruitment.
    (3) Fees. Fees may be charged in connection with the access
    provided under the Act and this part.
    (4) Terms. Any access provided under the Act and this part to any
    group officially affiliated with the Boy Scouts or officially
    affiliated with any other Title 36 youth group, as well as any fees
    charged for this access, must be on terms that are no less favorable
    than the most favorable terms provided to one or more outside youth or
    community groups.
    (5) Nondiscrimination. Any decisions relevant to the provision of
    equal access must be made on a nondiscriminatory basis. Any
    determinations of which youth or community groups are outside groups
    must be made using objective, nondiscriminatory criteria, and these
    criteria must be used in a consistent, equal, and nondiscriminatory
    manner.

    (Authority: 20 U.S.C. 7905)
    I believe I'm reading this correctly: Equal Access to Public School Facilities for the Boy Scouts of America and Other Designated Youth Groups; 34 CFR Parts 75, 76, and 108; Final regulations [OCR]
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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    Re: Boy Scouts vote to welcome gay members

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    I don't understand why you think that has anything to do with govts power to prohibit discrimination by businesses against GLBT's. The law you cite deals with access to public school facilities, not businesses.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Boy Scouts vote to welcome gay members

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    I don't understand why you think that has anything to do with govts power to prohibit discrimination by businesses against GLBT's. The law you cite deals with access to public school facilities, not businesses.
    I misread your post.

    Never mind.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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    Re: Boy Scouts vote to welcome gay members

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    It's a fact
    And yet you provided no supporting evidence or even an argument to support this "fact" of yours. Go figure.

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    Re: Boy Scouts vote to welcome gay members

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    And yet you provided no supporting evidence or even an argument to support this "fact" of yours. Go figure.
    Ironic, isn't it?
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  7. #297
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    Re: Boy Scouts vote to welcome gay members

    Quote Originally Posted by Dapper Andy View Post
    The BSA is generally a more conservative organization whereas homosexuals are generally an ultra liberal demographic group.
    Neither of those statements are particularly true. The Boy Scouts, as an organization, is indeed run by loony Mormons, but the individual troop leaders vary as much as anyone else. Same with the individual members.

    Homosexuals, particularly young homosexuals, are probably the most liberal demographic there is.
    If that's true, it's probably because conservatives keep trying to reduce them to subhuman status and strip away their rights. Would you support a faction that was trying to do that to you? Sexual orientation has nothing to do with one's positions on the fourth amendment, guns, or fiscal policy, however.

    Part of what makes scouting so appealing to the conservatives that have made up the organization for generations is the belief that hard work and dedication is the route to success. Right or wrong, this is a belief liberals tend to reject.
    Pretty much no part of this is true. Scouting has nothing to do with a proposition about hard work. It's about community service, the outdoors, and teamwork. Those are the three elements that pretty much every scouting activity is about. I've been involved with scouting for eighteen years. You can trust me on this. But let's hit the other nonsense assertion. "Errg, librulz hate hard werk!" Some of us (because liberals are less homogeneous in their positions than conservatives) view success as a team activity. Not the individual "I did it all by myself" nonsense that some conservatives (apparently you) like to tout. The idea that a person's success comes from them and them alone is a fantasy.

    They tend to see success as being the result of the proper skin pigmentation
    Race card! Those poor whites, so discriminated against by only having nine times as much average wealth as blacks.

    and how wealthy one's parents are.
    Right, that's why the left keeps doing all that "rich bashing" that conservatives get so incensed about. Because we're secretly oligarchs who want to ensure that the wealthy keep all the money. That's why we keep deregulating business and slashing taxes on the rich and protecting their offshore money. Do you only get your information in the form of talking points?

    I'm not against letting gays into scouts but I wonder how long before the requirements to become an Eagle Scout are modified because it is suddenly culturally biased or single parent households can't take time off to do all the activities.
    And then the slippery slope. Because apparently there's a similarity between banning a demographic from enjoying an American institution and having difficult requirements for an achievement. Man, if we let those blacks into our schools, how long before you only need a 40% to graduate and get your diploma? See how stupid that sounds?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Want to tell me how you can put someone into involuntary servitude and not violate the thirteenth amendment? No? Yeah, I didn't think so.
    What exactly do you think involuntary servitude is? Because I do not think it means what you think it means. Especially when you said that owning other people was already illegal when the 13th amendment was enacted. Have you studied American history? Say, around the 1860s? Seriously, I don't think you understand what involuntary servitude is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    If they are in a public building that changes nothing since the organization itself is private. Though I suppose you could kick them out of the public building.
    And that's generally what is proposed to do to the Boy Scouts if they keep discriminating. And let me tell you, the BSA does not have the kind of money to build its own buildings. Nor to pay full price for the space it uses for the Jamboree. The Boy Scouts gets a lot of benefits from the federal government. And the price they have to pay for those benefits is that they can't discriminate based on race, religion, sexual orientation, or many other elements. Honestly, the program shouldn't be sex-exclusive, either. The Girl Scouts and Venturers (who don't engage in all this discriminatory BS) are a different organization.

    Quote Originally Posted by shrubnose View Post
    "Tolerance is giving to every other human being every right that you claim for yourself." ~ Robert Green Ingersoll
    Quoting this quote. I like it very much.
    Liberté. Égalité. Fraternité.

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    Re: Boy Scouts vote to welcome gay members

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Ironic, isn't it?
    I don't know, do you think you have the right to involuntary servants?

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    Re: Boy Scouts vote to welcome gay members

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    I thought I read a story about them refusing to let an Eagle Scout earn that just because he was found to be gay before the ceremony, but I think if they did refuse to recognize any badges as "earned" for being homosexual, it would probably be ones that were about morality or religion or perhaps honesty (as a girl and really someone who doesn't plan on having her kids in scouts (because I don't approve of the "no atheists/agnostics policy) I just don't know what badges are available to begin with).
    I was never a Boy Scout, so I can't write from experience.

    It seems going forward, joining will require a thought process regarding policy that others previously ignored and rejected. Not sure why they did so, but I guess the point is moot now.

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    Re: Boy Scouts vote to welcome gay members

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    I don't know, do you think you have the right to involuntary servants?
    I don't think businesses have the right to discriminate against people based on factors such as race, religion, sexual orientation, gender, etc
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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