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Thread: Boy Scouts vote to welcome gay members

  1. #101
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    Re: Boy Scouts vote to welcome gay members

    Quote Originally Posted by tererun View Post
    There are certain areas of necessity where the government needs to step in or else they create an environment where white privilege becomes a huge problem. Things like discriminatory land sales, discriminatory sales of fodd to black people, discriminatory hiring practices, and things that deny a necessity based on prejudice are increadibly harmful to minorities. I use black people as an example but you could put hispanics, gays, women, or certain religious groups within this. I am all up for private clubs who operate on voluntary and non-necessary membership to be allowed to discriminate.

    I would even be up for a small number of segregated communities to operate. I havce seen a reason for things like restricted elderly communities, and even communities where strict religious beliefs are help by it's voluntary membership. I lived in NY and there were a few orthodox jewish communities and i could see why the orthodox members might want to live in seclusion. But I think over all that those communities should be in areas where they do not restrict property ownership because it is needed for minorities. For example a jewish community in a city would put stress on the other non-jewish people because they take up finite resources of housing and land. But if you put it out in some less populated areas with tons of land resources I have no problem with it. I just used jewish and elderly communities because I have seen them do fine in places like the northeast and Florida.

    In essence the US has shown that when allowed overwhelming practices of prejudice by private business cause massive disparities in diversity and wealth opportunities for minorities and harm the community. They create a power structure that becomes monopolized by the prejudiced factions and that simply cannot be allowed in a country that values opportunity for all. We had that freedom for a time and we showed that it damages peoples lives on a massive scale when allowed to operate unchecked. Don't blame the government because people cannot operate in a moral and ethical manner.
    Was that a constitutional argument? No? I didn't think so.

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    Re: Boy Scouts vote to welcome gay members

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    [/FONT][/COLOR]BBC News - Boy Scouts of America votes to ease ban on gay members

    Good for the Scouts.

    And I eagerly await the freakishly hateful statements that will inevitably come from people like the Family Research Council.[/FONT][/COLOR]





    Later I'll read the comments on this thread.

    Right now I'll just ask: How is this not a good 1st step by the Scouts?

    Any ideas?





    "Tolerance is giving to every other human being every right that you claim for yourself." ~ Robert Green Ingersoll

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    Re: Boy Scouts vote to welcome gay members

    Quote Originally Posted by shrubnose View Post

    "Tolerance is giving to every other human being every right that you claim for yourself." ~ Robert Green Ingersoll
    No one has a right to be in the boy scouts though.

  4. #104
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    Re: Boy Scouts vote to welcome gay members

    Quote Originally Posted by csense View Post
    I'm not exactly clear how you can divorce application from interpretation, unless your point here is the use of citing facts, which isn't an argument per se. I'm not sure why you seem to think that there is consensus on the application of any given law, and without such consensus, an appeal to authority, again, begs the question.
    No, I can point to current caselaw and supreme court rulings on vehicle searches during a traffic stop (establishing how the law is currently applied). People disagreeing with those rulings is another matter enturely

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    Re: Boy Scouts vote to welcome gay members

    Quote Originally Posted by csense View Post
    And that is precisely why an Appeal To Authority is fallacious...because it begs the question....
    The appeal to authority logical fallacy is a bit different than what you think it is. Here is a good description:

    Argumentum ad verecundiam (argument or appeal to authority). This fallacy occurs when someone tries to demonstrate the truth of a proposition by citing some person who agrees, even though that person may have no expertise in the given area. For instance, some people like to quote Einstein's opinions about politics (he tended to have fairly left-wing views), as though Einstein were a political philosopher rather than a physicist. Of course, it is not a fallacy at all to rely on authorities whose expertise relates to the question at hand, especially with regard to questions of fact that could not easily be answered by a layman -- for instance, it makes perfect sense to quote Stephen Hawking on the subject of black holes.

    Logical Fallacies and the Art of Debate
    If the authority you are citing is the actual authority on the issue being discussed, the appeal to authority logical fallacy does not apply.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  6. #106
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    Re: Boy Scouts vote to welcome gay members

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    The appeal to authority logical fallacy is a bit different than what you think it is. Here is a good description:



    If the authority you are citing is the actual authority on the issue being discussed, the appeal to authority logical fallacy does not apply.
    While true, such authority is generally still not above questioning. With US law, the supreme court is, on the point of current application. Naturally you can disagree with their arguments and reasons behind their rulings, but it's not going to amount to much in the realm of actual application

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    Re: Boy Scouts vote to welcome gay members

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    While true, such authority is generally still not above questioning. With US law, the supreme court is, on the point of current application. Naturally you can disagree with their arguments and reasons behind their rulings, but it's not going to amount to much in the realm of actual application
    One can always question authority. Doesn't alter the fact of who is the authority.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  8. #108
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    Re: Boy Scouts vote to welcome gay members

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    One can always question authority. Doesn't alter the fact of who is the authority.
    Of course, people that question them can in fact be right.

    We should not simply say the SC has the authority and therefore there is nothing to talk about. What good are the people if they go along with the will of the SC without ever even thinking of doubting them?

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    Re: Boy Scouts vote to welcome gay members

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Was that a constitutional argument? No? I didn't think so.
    Is the constitution automatically right in all aspects? No, so any argument based on it's perfection are invalid. So now that your argument which is based on the constitution being automatically correct is invalid do you have anything else to support your reasoning?

  10. #110
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    Re: Boy Scouts vote to welcome gay members

    Quote Originally Posted by Your Star View Post
    The ban on openly gay adult leaders is still disgusting though.
    I don't agree with you. "Openly gay" has some connotations that could turn a boy scout troop into a joke. Unless they're asking the question on forms volunteer leaders are asked to fill out, I have no problem with it at all.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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