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Thread: Boy Scouts vote to welcome gay members

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    Re: Boy Scouts vote to welcome gay members

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    When it comes to determining what the law is, appeals to authority are legitimate and not fallacious as long as the authority is a legitimate one
    I'm sorry, but without any sort of argument defending any sort of ruling all you're doing is wasting time.

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    Re: Boy Scouts vote to welcome gay members

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Do you know what I was complaining about?
    What were you complaining about, if I can ask ?......................

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    Re: Boy Scouts vote to welcome gay members

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    When it comes to determining what the law is, appeals to authority are legitimate and not fallacious as long as the authority is a legitimate one
    And that is precisely why an Appeal To Authority is fallacious...because it begs the question....

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    Re: Boy Scouts vote to welcome gay members

    Quote Originally Posted by csense View Post
    And that is precisely why an Appeal To Authority is fallacious...because it begs the question....
    depends what type f argument you are making. If it's how the law *should* be interpreted, then yes, appealing to current interpretations leaves something to be desired. If you're arguing about current interpretations and application of that law, then clearly appealing to such authority is more than applicable in such circumstances. because they are the one's who establish such

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    Re: Boy Scouts vote to welcome gay members

    Quote Originally Posted by Jredbaron96 View Post
    Great news.

    I never understood the ban. Gay boys can certainly be trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly,courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean, and reverent.
    And they give good head.

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    Re: Boy Scouts vote to welcome gay members

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    depends what type f argument you are making. If it's how the law *should* be interpreted, then yes, appealing to current interpretations leaves something to be desired. If you're arguing about current interpretations and application of that law, then clearly appealing to such authority is more than applicable in such circumstances. because they are the one's who establish such
    And particularly when their (ie the Judiciary) authority derives from a document that is considered to legitimately bestow upon them the authority to make such determinations.

    IOW, if you accept the legitimacy of the Constitution as a vehicle representing the will of the people, then accepting the Court's decision is a legitimate and non-fallacious appeal to authority. If you don't accept the legitimacy of the constitution, then one should not quote the constitutional provisions such as it's guarantee to protect people's right to freely associate.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Boy Scouts vote to welcome gay members

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    depends what type f argument you are making. If it's how the law *should* be interpreted, then yes, appealing to current interpretations leaves something to be desired. If you're arguing about current interpretations and application of that law, then clearly appealing to such authority is more than applicable in such circumstances. because they are the one's who establish such

    I'm not exactly clear how you can divorce application from interpretation, unless your point here is the use of citing facts, which isn't an argument per se. I'm not sure why you seem to think that there is consensus on the application of any given law, and without such consensus, an appeal to authority, again, begs the question.

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    Re: Boy Scouts vote to welcome gay members

    Quote Originally Posted by Bonzai View Post
    What were you complaining about, if I can ask ?......................
    People are constantly crying about discrimination when it comes to private property or in the affairs of everyday life, but if you were to look at the three things I listed it becomes clear it must be allowed or otherwise you breach all three.

    The government can not force you to allow people on your property or else their violating your right to property
    The government can not force you to associate with people or else their violating your right to association
    The government can not force you to provide service to someone or else they are placing you in servitude against your will for the benefit of someone else and breaching the 13th amendment for the reason of involuntary servitude.

    For these reasons the government can not act on discrimination in business or in the everyday affairs of people.
    Last edited by Henrin; 05-24-13 at 03:42 AM.

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    Re: Boy Scouts vote to welcome gay members

    Quote Originally Posted by Van Basten View Post
    Long as they decided for themselves and didn't do it simply because of social pressure. They had all right to ban gays, but one more step for equality, right?

    Now, I don't have to hear about this again. Lovely, we can move on.
    They had a right to ban gays, but they are also a organization looking for members to continue their operations which makes social pressure an important factor in their membership. Unlike a discriminatory group who exists for the purpose of promoting discrimination they are an entertainment group that is there for the betterment of the lives of the members. The reality is life is more fun for the members when they have more people to participate with in their recreational activities and more donations. They are a group made for having fun not for promoting a political or social ideal, and that is why social pressure is relevant for them.

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    Re: Boy Scouts vote to welcome gay members

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    The government can not force you to provide service to someone or else they are placing you in servitude against your will for the benefit of someone else and breaching the 13th amendment for the reason of involuntary servitude.

    For these reasons the government can not act on discrimination in business or in the everyday affairs of people.
    There are certain areas of necessity where the government needs to step in or else they create an environment where white privilege becomes a huge problem. Things like discriminatory land sales, discriminatory sales of fodd to black people, discriminatory hiring practices, and things that deny a necessity based on prejudice are increadibly harmful to minorities. I use black people as an example but you could put hispanics, gays, women, or certain religious groups within this. I am all up for private clubs who operate on voluntary and non-necessary membership to be allowed to discriminate.

    I would even be up for a small number of segregated communities to operate. I havce seen a reason for things like restricted elderly communities, and even communities where strict religious beliefs are help by it's voluntary membership. I lived in NY and there were a few orthodox jewish communities and i could see why the orthodox members might want to live in seclusion. But I think over all that those communities should be in areas where they do not restrict property ownership because it is needed for minorities. For example a jewish community in a city would put stress on the other non-jewish people because they take up finite resources of housing and land. But if you put it out in some less populated areas with tons of land resources I have no problem with it. I just used jewish and elderly communities because I have seen them do fine in places like the northeast and Florida.

    In essence the US has shown that when allowed overwhelming practices of prejudice by private business cause massive disparities in diversity and wealth opportunities for minorities and harm the community. They create a power structure that becomes monopolized by the prejudiced factions and that simply cannot be allowed in a country that values opportunity for all. We had that freedom for a time and we showed that it damages peoples lives on a massive scale when allowed to operate unchecked. Don't blame the government because people cannot operate in a moral and ethical manner.

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