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Thread: Lt. gov. nominee Jackson says ‘no apologies’ for past comments on gays, abortion

  1. #101
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    Re: Lt. gov. nominee Jackson says ‘no apologies’ for past comments on gays, abortion

    Part III

    In 1981, Ronald Bayer wrote a book claiming that the reason that the APA declassified homosexuality was solely because of gay activists. Bayer, not a Psychologist, but a Professor of Political Science, reported on this, but was not an active participant. As a direct refutation on Bayer's work, the book, "American Psychiatry and Homosexuality: An Oral History" was published 2007. In it 17 APA members who participated in the 1973 APA meeting, are interviewed and discuss what really happened and what the attitudes towards homosexuality was like, at the time. These are people who were actually there, not someone like Bayer, who just reported on this. Here is a description:

    Product Description
    Interviews and first-hand accounts of an historic decision that affected the mental health profession—and American society and culture Through the personal accounts of those who were there, American Psychiatry and Homosexuality: An Oral History examines the 1973 decision by the American Psychiatric Association (APA) to remove homosexuality from its diagnostic and statistical manual of mental disorders (DSM). This unique book includes candid, one-on-one interviews with key mental health professionals who played a role in the APA’s decision, those who helped organize gay, lesbian, and bisexual psychiatrists after the decision, and others who have made significant contributions in this area within the mental health field.
    American Psychiatry and Homosexuality presents an insider’s view of how homosexuality was removed from the DSM, the gradual organization of gay and lesbian psychiatrists within the APA, and the eventual formation of the APA-allied Association of Gay & Lesbian Psychiatrists (AGLP). The book profiles 17 individuals, both straight and gay, who made important contributions to organized psychiatry and the mental health needs of lesbian and gay patients, and illustrates the role that gay and lesbian psychiatrists would later play in the mental health field when they no longer had to hide their identities.
    Individuals profiled in American Psychiatry and Homosexuality include:

    Dr. John Fryer, who disguised his identity to speak before the APA’s annual meeting in 1972 on the discrimination gay psychiatrists faced in their own profession
    Dr. Charles Silverstein, who saw the diagnosis of homosexuality as a means of social control
    Dr. Lawrence Hartmann, who helped reform the APA and later served as its President in 1991-92
    Dr. Robert J. Campbell, who helped persuade the APA’s Nomenclature Committee to hear scientific data presented by gay activists
    Dr. Judd Marmor, an early psychoanalytic critic of theories that pathologized homosexuality
    Dr. Robert Spitzer, who chaired the APA’s Nomenclature Committee
    Dr. Frank Rundle, who helped organize the first meeting of what would become the APA Caucus of Gay, Lesbian and Bisexual Psychiatrists
    Dr. David Kessler, AGLP President from 1980-82
    Dr. Nanette Gartrell, a pioneer of feminist issues within the APA
    Dr. Stuart Nichols, President of the AGLP in 1983-84 and a founding member of the Gay and Lesbian Psychiatrists of New York (GLPNY)
    Dr. Emery Hetrick, a founding member of both AGLP and GLPNY
    Dr. Bertram Schaffner, who was instrumental in providing group psychotherapy for physicians with AIDS
    Dr. Martha Kirkpatrick, a long-time leader in psychiatry and psychoanalysis, both as a woman and an “out” lesbian
    Dr. Richard Isay, the first openly gay psychoanalyst in the American Psychoanalytic Association
    Dr. Richard Pillard, best known for studying the incidence of homosexuality in families of twins
    Dr. Edward Hanin, former Speaker of the APA Assembly
    Dr. Ralph Roughton, the first openly gay Training and Supervising Psychoanalyst to be recognized within the American and International Psychoanalytic Associations
    American Psychiatry and Homosexuality presents the personal, behind-the-scenes accounts of a major historical event in psychiatry and medicine and of a decision that has affected society and culture ever since. This is an essential resource for mental health educators, supervisors, and professionals; historians; and LGBT readers in general.
    Amazon.com: American Psychiatry and Homosexuality: An Oral History: Jack Drescher, Joseph P. Merlino: Books
    Some quotes and anectodes from the book:

    By contrast, these first-person accounts provide corrective insider views of the process. Several speak of the depressing psychiatric attitudes prior to 1973. Lawrence Hartmann recalls, "The few analysts who wrote about gay people tended to describe them as nasty psychopaths, close to psychosis. I am not making this up!"
    Judd Marmor recalls the view that "homosexuals were inherently seriously mentally disturbed, irresponsible, and completely driven by needs over which they had no control." They were supposedly "emotionally immature, deceptive, impulsive, unreliable, and incapable of truly loving."
    ...gay activist Ron Gold arranged for gays to meet with the APA's Committee on Nomenclature where they laid out evidence from studies supporting gay mental health. Robert Jean Campbell recalls, "They had a lot of data that I had never seen. I don't know where they got it, but I was really overwhelmed by the data."
    Campbell argued that the committee should take its own look at the scientific evidence about homosexuality.
    Spitzer recalls thinking, "Is there something that they (other mental disorders) all share that I can argue does not apply to homosexuality?" His conclusion was that people with other conditions "were usually not very happy about it. They had distress or...in some way the condition interfered with their overall functioning."
    Spitzer continues, "If you accepted what the activists said, clearly here were homosexuals who were not distressed by being homosexual. Instead, they might be distressed by how people reacted to their being gay."
    Cure-therapists, mostly psychoanalysts such as Irving Bieber and the zealously homophobic Charles Socarides (whose son is openly gay), were furious and began gathering signatures demanding a referendum to overturn the board's decision. Edward Hanin recalls, "The controversy was led by people who essentially said this was politics intruding into science. It wasn't. The APA Board of Trustees had reviewed very carefully the evidence related to homosexuality."
    Judd Marmor agrees: "The fact is that the decision to remove homosexuality...was not based on gay political pressure but on scientific correctness and only after a full year of exploratory hearings and study of the issue. The so-called 'politics' surrounding the decision was subsequently instilled into the process by opponents."
    Robert Jean Campbell comments, "I thought the only reason they were worried was that they wouldn't have any patients if this went through. People would no longer go to them for something that was no longer a disease."
    Dr. John Fryer, M.D., a psychiatrist who in 1972 spoke at a psychiatry panel on homosexuality, appearing as “Dr. H. Anonymous,” disguising his true physical identity—and even his voice. In those days, to come out as a gay psychiatrist meant a ruined career.
    I would take the word of those who were there, rather than that of a reseracher-reporter, any day.

    I hope this has been helpful and cleared up a lot of misconceptions. I do not believe that those on the opposite side of this issue will change their mind because of this information. Prejudice and bigotry can rarely altered, even in the light of irrefutable evidence. Thing is, regardless of whether they believe it or not, they are wrong. And that is factual.

    Now, since this was originally posted by me 2 and a half years ago, may of the links that I originally used are no longer working. However, I will provide links upon request.

    So, in conclusion, the activism to declassify homosexuality as a disorder was to get research examined. Bronson's explanation has no basis in reality... except for extreme conservatives who have no desire to learn anything new.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

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  2. #102
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    Re: Lt. gov. nominee Jackson says ‘no apologies’ for past comments on gays, abortion

    That's the problem with Liberals... they always expect people who disagree with them to apologize for disagreeing with them, to concede from the outset of the conversation that they are wrong, and that they are continuing to advocate for their position despite knowing that they are wrong. They can't fathom that people disagree with them because they honestly disagree with them.

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    Re: Lt. gov. nominee Jackson says ‘no apologies’ for past comments on gays, abortion

    Quote Originally Posted by Somerville View Post
    and some of the people in Virginia will vote for this demented fool



    A few of his 'nice, Christian' words included such phrases as:
    “Homosexuality is a horrible sin, it poisons culture, it destroys families, it destroys societies; it brings the judgment of God unlike very few things that we can think of,”

    “Their minds are perverted, they’re frankly very sick people psychologically, mentally and emotionally and they see everything through the lens of homosexuality. When they talk about love they’re not talking about love, they’re talking about homosexual sex.”

    He has also called Democrats “slave masters” and compared Planned Parenthood to the Ku Klux Klan. He also has said the Democratic Party has “An agenda worthy of the Antichrist.”

    “Liberalism and their ideas have done more to kill black folks whom they claim so much to love than the Ku Klux Klan, lynching and slavery and Jim Crow ever did, now that’s a fact,”
    Everything that you have here quoted him as saying, while not politically correct, is the plain truth. Why should he or anyone else apologize for speaking it?
    The five great lies of the Left Wrong:
    We can be Godless and free. • “Social justice” through forced redistribution of wealth. • Silencing religious opinions counts as “diversity”. • Freedom without moral and personal responsibility. • Civilization can survive the intentional undermining of the family.

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    Re: Lt. gov. nominee Jackson says ‘no apologies’ for past comments on gays, abortion

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    Planned Parenthood doesn't perform involuntary Abortions. But expecting honesty from you is a bit much.

    Keep playing that race card, Cons.
    How many of the innocent victims of abortion volunteered to be killed?
    The five great lies of the Left Wrong:
    We can be Godless and free. • “Social justice” through forced redistribution of wealth. • Silencing religious opinions counts as “diversity”. • Freedom without moral and personal responsibility. • Civilization can survive the intentional undermining of the family.

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    Re: Lt. gov. nominee Jackson says ‘no apologies’ for past comments on gays, abortion

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    However...claiming homosexuals are mentally "sick people" and suggesting they have a psychological disorder when psychologists categorically disagree IS rather reprehensible in my mind.

    Suggesting that anytime a homosexual talks about "love" they're actually simply talking about gay sex...essentially suggesting that homosexuals are physically incapable of experience the feeling of "love" and are purely lust driven...is a pretty reprehensible statement in my mind.

    Suggesting a major political party in this serving up an agenda "worthy of the antichrist" is a pretty reprehensible comment.
    Why is it “reprehensible” to speak the plain truth?
    Last edited by Bob Blaylock; 05-24-13 at 06:00 AM. Reason: A man without a forklift is nothing. May the Forks be with you.
    The five great lies of the Left Wrong:
    We can be Godless and free. • “Social justice” through forced redistribution of wealth. • Silencing religious opinions counts as “diversity”. • Freedom without moral and personal responsibility. • Civilization can survive the intentional undermining of the family.

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    Re: Lt. gov. nominee Jackson says ‘no apologies’ for past comments on gays, abortion

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Blaylock View Post
    Why is it “reprehensible” to speak the plain truth?
    There's nothing "plain" or "true" about those statements. The second statement in particular is nothing more than pig****ing ignorance wrapped up in several layers of pure viciousness.

    The man is disgusting and I don't like what it says about our country that he can be elected while saying these things. I just think it's ridiculous he should be expected to apologize for believing them-- at least, for as long as he still believes them, and as long as his disgusting, reprehensible constituents continue to elect him for believing these things.

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    Re: Lt. gov. nominee Jackson says ‘no apologies’ for past comments on gays, abortion

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Blaylock View Post
    Why is it “reprehensible” to speak the plain truth?
    Because it is not the truth:

    In 1992, the American Psychiatric Association, recognizing the power of the stigma against homosexuality, issued the following statement, reaffirmed by the Board of Trustees, July 2011: "Whereas homosexuality per se implies no impairment in judgment, stability, reliability, or general social or vocational capabilities, the American Psychiatric Association (APA) calls on all international health organizations, psychiatric organizations, and individual psychiatrists in other countries to urge the repeal in their own countries of legislation that penalizes homosexual acts by consenting adults in private. Further, APA calls on these organizations and individuals to do all that is possible to decrease the stigma related to homosexuality wherever and whenever it may occur."[22]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homophobia

  8. #108
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    Re: Lt. gov. nominee Jackson says ‘no apologies’ for past comments on gays, abortion

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Blaylock View Post
    Why is it “reprehensible” to speak the plain truth?
    Because the reality is OPINION's are in no way clear cut "Truth". Truth suggests an neigh unquestionable, factual, verifable thing.

    The notion that Homosexuals are mentally "sick people" and that it's a "psychological disorder" is not just not "Truth" but an abject inaccurate and false statement. In terms of mental health, there is nothing "sick" about homosexuality. That's not "Truth" that's having an opinion opposite of facts.

    Stating "I find Homosexuals sickening" is an opinion and "Truth" in the minds of the person stating it. That could be considered "not being politically correct". Stating that homosexuals have a psychological disorder and are mentally sick however is NOT simply "not being politically correct" but is rather spouting categorically FALSE information.

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    Re: Lt. gov. nominee Jackson says ‘no apologies’ for past comments on gays, abortion

    Quote Originally Posted by Viktyr Gehrig View Post
    There's nothing "plain" or "true" about those statements. The second statement in particular is nothing more than pig****ing ignorance wrapped up in several layers of pure viciousness.

    The man is disgusting and I don't like what it says about our country that he can be elected while saying these things. I just think it's ridiculous he should be expected to apologize for believing them-- at least, for as long as he still believes them, and as long as his disgusting, reprehensible constituents continue to elect him for believing these things.
    I actually give a damn about CONSERVATIVE ideology, not just SOCIAL CONSERVATIVE ideology, and I don't vote for individuals who I think could actually have a significant chance of advocating for things that would damage my state and/or country. It's too bad that the Republicans are seemingly going to put up this jackass for the nominee in my state, basically assuring that when it comes to Lt. Governor I won't be casting a vote unless there's a 3rd party individual available.

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    Re: Lt. gov. nominee Jackson says ‘no apologies’ for past comments on gays, abortion

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Blaylock View Post
    Everything that you have here quoted him as saying, while not politically correct, is the plain truth. Why should he or anyone else apologize for speaking it?
    '

    There's nothing plain, true, or productive in saying that Democrats are the antichrist.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
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    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

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