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Thread: 'Soldier beheaded' in Woolwich machete attack: latest

  1. #421
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    Re: 'Soldier beheaded' in Woolwich machete attack: latest

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    Further



    same book, page 101, Neamatollah Nojumi
    You are incorrect, but now I know why you're making a big deal about a small detail. You wanted to avoid addressing my actual point, which was that over the past 40 years we have been regularing arming, training, and funding any group in the middle east that we think will be beneficial to us, and that this constant political meddling, invasions, and bomb dropping has been a large source of muslim distrust and disdain for Americans.

    Nice smoke screen.

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    Re: 'Soldier beheaded' in Woolwich machete attack: latest

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    You are incorrect, but now I know why you're making a big deal about a small detail. You wanted to avoid addressing my actual point, which was that over the past 40 years we have been regularing arming, training, and funding any group in the middle east that we think will be beneficial to us, and that this constant political meddling, invasions, and bomb dropping has been a large source of muslim distrust and disdain for Americans.
    1) No, I am certainly correct. hence why I am not citing internet memes and hollywood movies

    2)You made specific claims about the Taliban that are factually wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    Not really. The Taliban became active during the war with the USSR, at which point we propped them up, funded and supplied them. We gave them everything they needed to defeat the soviets and later assume power.
    3)We withdrew our involvement in Afghanistan after the soviets left. In fact, such is usually faulted for the **** hole it turned into

    4) It's rather odd seeing someone try to claim an intellectual victory in the above context, but whatever

  3. #423
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    Re: 'Soldier beheaded' in Woolwich machete attack: latest

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    didn't you just complain about propped up dictators? You're arguments seem to be all over the place here
    My complaint is about interventionism. How is it possible that you haven't figured that out by now?

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    Re: 'Soldier beheaded' in Woolwich machete attack: latest

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    where is the imperialism in Iraq or Libya?
    We bombed the **** out of them, did you forget?

    Ignoring the simplistic view of american foreign policy, wouldn't this be ignoring that the Taliban arose in the absence of american interference?
    LMFAO! Have you heard of the Soviet War in Afghanistan, the Mujahideen, and the resulting power vacuum that was left after Soviet troops withdrew? Is this some kind of joke? You can't be serious right now right?

    Where have we killed people for being muslim?
    All over the Middle East. Iraq, Afghanistan, etc. Nobody would have approved of the invasion of a European country after 9/11. Muslim country like Iraq? No problem!

    That isn't identical logic at all. Nothing I asserted claims that it's "ok to kill muslims because they are trying to kill Americans". My argument rested on the fact that disproportionate casualties do not speak to the moral or ethical nature of a conflict.
    And what is the "moral" or "ethical" argument you have for killing innocent Muslims? I guess I'm just like 3 steps ahead of you so I will try to slow it down a bit.

  5. #425
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    Re: 'Soldier beheaded' in Woolwich machete attack: latest

    Quote Originally Posted by Quik View Post
    We bombed the **** out of them, did you forget?



    LMFAO! Have you heard of the Soviet War in Afghanistan, the Mujahideen, and the resulting power vacuum that was left after Soviet troops withdrew? Is this some kind of joke? You can't be serious right now right?



    All over the Middle East. Iraq, Afghanistan, etc. Nobody would have approved of the invasion of a European country after 9/11. Muslim country like Iraq? No problem!



    And what is the "moral" or "ethical" argument you have for killing innocent Muslims? I guess I'm just like 3 steps ahead of you so I will try to slow it down a bit.
    Ronald Reagan had a description for people making silly claims like this. He called them "the blame America first crowd." Still fits.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: 'Soldier beheaded' in Woolwich machete attack: latest

    Quote Originally Posted by Fallenangel View Post
    Maybe because you have a very poor argument?

    You argued few pages ago that:
    You - Iran, Iraq, Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, etc.
    Me - ....And how any of these have to do with the rise of Salafi/Wahhabi movements, for instance?
    You -"They have to do with our imperialist foreign policy. That include the rise of Wahhabism in the first place via our "great ally" Saudi Arabia."
    Yes, you see the key operator term "INCLUDES" meaning that I mentioned it specifically in the context of our greater imperialist foreign policy. You somehow confused Saudi Arabia's very different reasons with Iraq and Afghanistan. What you did not pick up for some reason however, is that all are the result of American intervention.

    or from the post above me:
    I wonder what else gives fuel to that fire we call radical Islam. Could it be that the west has been ransacking and destroying the Muslim world for the last 50 years, overthrowing governments and propping up dictators as we did in South America, SouthEast Asia, and everywhere else in the world?*

    Again, Saudi Arabia was supported by the US and unfortunately still is, but it began to radicalize from within in mid 20th century before wars, interventions, etc by US.
    Hence, the cause for radicalization isn't US foreign/intervention policy - at least not the original one, and again...though, I don't like the house of Saud there are more radical movements inside Saudi Arabia.

    So...wanna try and come up with another theory to explain the rise of Wahhabi/Salafi movements?

    Fallen.
    There is the key word, once again! The reason it has become such a large, international movement and the main export besides oil, is because we have propped up that regime for decades. Saddam could have easily crushed Saudi Arabia, or at least embroiled them both in a long drawn out insurgency. We should never have gotten involved, and our interventions continue to bring misery to our country.

    I'm tired of politicians rolling the dice with our kids futures, and sheep like you cheering them on the whole time. Every time they try to play God and "help fix" the Middle East they end up creating disasters and blowback. Just stop ****ing around and stirring the hornets nest already.

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    Re: 'Soldier beheaded' in Woolwich machete attack: latest

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    Ronald Reagan had a description for people making silly claims like this. He called them "the blame America first crowd." Still fits.
    Internet Savvy image creators have come up with amusing images for people like you, including the one with the ostrich putting his head in the sand.


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    Re: 'Soldier beheaded' in Woolwich machete attack: latest

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    Again, the Taliban didn't start operating until 1994. Soviet troops withdrew from Afghanistan in 89
    Yes that is correct Einstein. Now, for 400, can you explain why the Taliban came to power AFTER the Soviet Union withdrew, or why they withdrew in the first place?

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    Re: 'Soldier beheaded' in Woolwich machete attack: latest

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    Further



    same book, page 101, Neamatollah Nojumi
    Amazing! No way you are this dense...

    "This chaotic social and political environment gave rise to a vacuum of leadership and gave momentum to to the appearance of a political force that promised to stop the infighting and further destruction of the country. Led by Mullah Muhammad Omar, the initial taliban group emerged in the southern part of Kandahar province in 1994 as a local response to the former resistance and resistance forces implicated in banditry, brutality against local residents "

    And what caused that chaotic social and political environment? Our intervention! Man oh man, I think I have identified the problem. We are like 10 steps ahead of you and so it's too hard for you to keep up.

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    Re: 'Soldier beheaded' in Woolwich machete attack: latest

    afp last saturday, may 18:

    Bombs targeting Sunnis, including two near a mosque and one at a funeral procession, killed 67 people in Iraq, officials said, after dozens died in two days of attacks on Shiites.
    Bombs targeting Iraqi Sunnis kill 67

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