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Thread: 'Soldier beheaded' in Woolwich machete attack: latest

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    Re: 'Soldier beheaded' in Woolwich machete attack: latest

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    The majority of followers of Islam are not off killing everyone.
    No, but they may support things like executing apostates and gays. Not exactly what I would define as "peaceful".

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    Re: 'Soldier beheaded' in Woolwich machete attack: latest

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    No, but they may support things like executing apostates and gays. Not exactly what I would define as "peaceful".
    And how do they support it? Do you have proof that over 500 million followers of Islam support executing apostates and gays? Or does the government that control those countries support it?

    You have no proof, yet claim as if you do. Your namesake makes me do just that....chuckle at your folly.

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    Re: 'Soldier beheaded' in Woolwich machete attack: latest

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    And how do they support it?
    Well, Pew has done a number of interesting polls on the subject.


    http://www.pewforum.org/uploadedFile...ull-report.pdf

    Muslim Publics Divided on Hamas and Hezbollah | Pew Global Attitudes Project

    I also think you will find both studies point to large segments of the population also supporting extremist organizations and position. Though they seem to clearly make up a minority in that instance

    Do you have proof that over 500 million followers of Islam support executing apostates and gays?
    Well, no, which is why I wrote "they may". Because the evidence does seem to suggest this, and at least makes clear it's a very real possibility




    You have no proof, yet claim as if you do.
    So you reasonably ask for proof while at the same time claiming I have no proof?


    Your namesake makes me do just that....chuckle at your folly.
    what are you getting worked up about? If you disagree feel free to address my data

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    Re: 'Soldier beheaded' in Woolwich machete attack: latest

    Quote Originally Posted by Bonzai View Post
    I would say the Conservative agenda to turn Americans into raving lunatic haters of unions has been 100% successful. Haters of queers---About 50 % successful. Haters of little brown people-----------Maybe 45%....................
    Haters of educated people- say, 30% and growing.

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    Re: 'Soldier beheaded' in Woolwich machete attack: latest

    Quote Originally Posted by Texmex View Post
    Did the Newtown shooter do his deed in the name of Jesus?
    For your logic to make sense, this shooter would have attacked the Newtown school because they were not Christians. Do you have anything showing this to be a fact?[/QUOTE]

    Let's say he did, would it then be representative of all Christians? Yes or no please.

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    Re: 'Soldier beheaded' in Woolwich machete attack: latest

    Quote Originally Posted by Fallenangel View Post
    You can keep facepalming yourself more if you want, because you just showed that you do not know what you are talking about.

    The radicalization of Saudi Sunnis began in mid 20th century, long before Iraq/Afghanistan, it continued and was only amplified by anti-western rhetoric during the wars, but it began long before that.

    Btw the house of Saud isn't the most radical part of Saudi Arabia, nor of the world - it doesn't mean that they are any good either.

    Wanna try and come up with another theory?

    Fallen.
    FACEPALM. Saudi Arabia is not radical because of our intervention in Iraq or Afghanistan, and nothing I said can even remotely be considered similar to your very, very poor understanding of my argument.

    Iraq is radical because we overthrew their secular government and it was replaced by an Islamic "democracy." Same thing with Iran. And Afghanistan.

    Saudi Arabia on the other hand, whose radical Wahhabist government has always been supported and propped up by the United States (like when we sent troops to defend them against Saddam -- Osamas stated reason for 9/11), is a completely separate case. How you managed to confuse them is beyond me, but it makes sense given your poor understanding of how world events are interconnected.

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    Re: 'Soldier beheaded' in Woolwich machete attack: latest

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    What do you mean by "innocent people"? Do you mean innocents that we are specifically targeting, like various public bombinb campaigns carried out by actual terrorist organizations, or are you talking about collateral damage, that is born out of the necessities for waging war and is clearly accepted within such documents as the geneva convention?
    I'm talking about the tens of thousands of innocent people who were killed due to our imperialist foreign policy, like in Iraq for example, a completely voluntary war. Or Libya. Or the presidents terrorist drone policy.

    Depends on what you are exactly talking about. You're posts seem rather vague and based on various faulty assumptions. So they are hard to address in any substantial manner.

    Secondly, support for radicalism and fundamentalism (in the context of executing gays and apostates) is rather widespread in the islamic world. And while I don't think that makes islam and muslims inherently bad, there are certain trends within the religion that helps fuel those rather large bad elements. With the big one being the lack of distinction between godly and earthly law

    Of course, that is not to say there isn't a reaction to foreign policy going on here, either. But as problematic as it is, the hindu nationalist movement has largely moderated, while the Deobondi school of islam is still fueling the Taliban, ideologically.
    I wonder what else gives fuel to that fire we call radical Islam. Could it be that the west has been ransacking and destroying the Muslim world for the last 50 years, overthrowing governments and propping up dictators as we did in South America, SouthEast Asia, and everywhere else in the world?

    It's easy to point the finger at "those people over there" and say we are so much better than them because we don't kill gays. Well, instead we just kill Muslims, by the tens of thousands.

    So what? If I have a hundred people storm my home to rape my children, and kill 60 before running them off, and they don't have an opportunity to kill anyone, that doesn't make my attempt at defense any less morally right, and their attack and intentions any less morally wrong.
    They use identical logic. It's ok to kill Americans because Americans are trying to kill Muslims. You don't see this because you are thoroughly indoctrinated via government propaganda, just like they are brainwashed from radical Muslim propaganda.

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    Re: 'Soldier beheaded' in Woolwich machete attack: latest

    Quote Originally Posted by Quik View Post
    FACEPALM. Saudi Arabia is not radical because of our intervention in Iraq or Afghanistan, and nothing I said can even remotely be considered similar to your very, very poor understanding of my argument.

    Iraq is radical because we overthrew their secular government and it was replaced by an Islamic "democracy. Same thing with Iran. And Afghanistan.

    Saudi Arabia on the other hand, whose radical Wahhabist government has always been supported and propped up by the United States (like when we sent troops to defend them against Saddam -- Osamas stated reason for 9/11), is a completely separate case. How you managed to confuse them is beyond me, but it makes sense given your poor understanding of how world events are interconnected.
    Maybe because you have a very poor argument?

    You argued few pages ago that:
    You - Iran, Iraq, Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, etc.
    Me - ....And how any of these have to do with the rise of Salafi/Wahhabi movements, for instance?
    You -"They have to do with our imperialist foreign policy. That include the rise of Wahhabism in the first place via our "great ally" Saudi Arabia."

    or from the post above me:
    I wonder what else gives fuel to that fire we call radical Islam. Could it be that the west has been ransacking and destroying the Muslim world for the last 50 years, overthrowing governments and propping up dictators as we did in South America, SouthEast Asia, and everywhere else in the world?*

    Again, Saudi Arabia was supported by the US and unfortunately still is, but it began to radicalize from within in mid 20th century before wars, interventions, etc by US.
    Hence, the cause for radicalization isn't US foreign/intervention policy - at least not the original one, and again...though, I don't like the house of Saud there are more radical movements inside Saudi Arabia.

    So...wanna try and come up with another theory to explain the rise of Wahhabi/Salafi movements?

    Fallen.
    Last edited by Fallenangel; 05-26-13 at 07:38 AM. Reason: added a quote
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    Re: 'Soldier beheaded' in Woolwich machete attack: latest

    Quote Originally Posted by Quik View Post
    I'm talking about the tens of thousands of innocent people who were killed due to our imperialist foreign policy, like in Iraq for example, a completely voluntary war. Or Libya. Or the presidents terrorist drone policy.
    where is the imperialism in Iraq or Libya?



    I wonder what else gives fuel to that fire we call radical Islam. Could it be that the west has been ransacking and destroying the Muslim world for the last 50 years, overthrowing governments and propping up dictators as we did in South America, SouthEast Asia, and everywhere else in the world?
    Ignoring the simplistic view of american foreign policy, wouldn't this be ignoring that the Taliban arose in the absence of american interference?

    It's easy to point the finger at "those people over there" and say we are so much better than them because we don't kill gays. Well, instead we just kill Muslims, by the tens of thousands.
    Where have we killed people for being muslim?



    They use identical logic. It's ok to kill Americans because Americans are trying to kill Muslims. You don't see this because you are thoroughly indoctrinated via government propaganda, just like they are brainwashed from radical Muslim propaganda.
    That isn't identical logic at all. Nothing I asserted claims that it's "ok to kill muslims because they are trying to kill Americans". My argument rested on the fact that disproportionate casualties do not speak to the moral or ethical nature of a conflict.

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    Re: 'Soldier beheaded' in Woolwich machete attack: latest

    Quote Originally Posted by Quik View Post
    Iraq is radical because we overthrew their secular government and it was replaced by an Islamic "democracy." Same thing with Iran. And Afghanistan.
    didn't you just complain about propped up dictators? You're arguments seem to be all over the place here

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