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Thread: IRS official Lois Lerner to take the Fifth

  1. #291
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    Re: IRS official Lois Lerner to take the Fifth

    Quote Originally Posted by OpportunityCost View Post
    Youre kidding me. They asked some very invasive questions that were borderline constitutional intrusions and you have the balls to say they werent investigated?

    I know you have been reading on the subject so is it willfull ignorance, willfull blindness, or just BSing us?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mithros
    There's no indication that only conservative groups were investigated
    "wilful blindness".... Such irony..

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    Re: IRS official Lois Lerner to take the Fifth

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithros View Post
    "wilful blindness".... Such irony..
    Indeed, since there is no evidence that liberal groups were investigated that intensely.

    Since you are dodging, Im going to go with the full of it stance---dont feign ignorance when you know the details you claim to not know.

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    Re: IRS official Lois Lerner to take the Fifth

    Quote Originally Posted by OpportunityCost View Post
    Indeed, since there is no evidence that liberal groups were investigated that intensely.

    Since you are dodging, Im going to go with the full of it stance---dont feign ignorance when you know the details you claim to not know.
    How am I dodging anything? If I write something, and then someone else doesn't take the time to read it, and assumes it says something else, then demands to know why I’m taking a position that I haven't actually taken..... Not very logical is it?

    The only group to be denied 501(c)(4) status was a liberal group. Conservatives 501(c) groups outspent liberals 85%-11% in spending from non-disclosed donors. These are hardly indications that conservatives were subjected to excess partisan hardship. Instead, all evidence points to conservative groups making a concerted effort to exploit 501(c)(4) status.
    Last edited by Mithros; 05-26-13 at 04:16 PM.

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    Re: IRS official Lois Lerner to take the Fifth

    NOT a 527:

    The Center for American Progress, Washington’s leading liberal think tank, has been a big backer of the Energy Department’s $25 billion loan guarantee program for renewable energy projects. CAP has specifically praised First Solar, a firm that received $3.73 billion under the program, and its Antelope Valley project in California.

    CAP has emerged as perhaps the most influential of all think tanks during the Obama era, and there’s been a rapidly revolving door between it and the administration. CAP is also among the most secretive of all think tanks concerning its donors. Most major think tanks prepare an annual report containing at least some financial and donor information and make it available on their websites. According to CAP spokeswoman Andrea Purse, the center doesn’t even publish one.

    After growing rapidly in its first few years, tax records show, CAP’s total assets fell in 2006 for the first time, from $23.6 million to $20.4 million. Assets started growing again in 2007 when CAP founded the Business Alliance, a membership rewards program for corporate contributors, and then exploded when Obama was elected in 2008. According to its most recent nonprofit tax filing, CAP’s total assets now top $44 million, and its Action Fund treasury holds $6 million more.

    A confidential CAP donor pitch I obtained describes the Business Alliance, a secret group of corporate donors, as “a channel for engagement with the corporate community” that provides “the opportunity to…collaborate on common interests.” It offers three membership levels, with the perks to top donors ($100,000 and up) including private meetings with CAP experts and executives, round-table discussions with “Hill and national leaders,” and briefings on CAP reports “relevant to your unique interests.”

    Last year, when First Solar was taking a beating from congressional Republicans and in the press over job layoffs and alleged political cronyism, CAP’s Richard Caperton praised Antelope Valley in his testimony to the House Committee on Energy and Commerce, saying it headed up his list of “innovative projects” receiving loan guarantees. Earlier, Caperton and Steve Spinner—
a top Obama fundraiser who left his job at the Energy Department monitoring the issuance of loan guarantees and became a CAP senior fellow—had written an article cross-posted on CAP’s website and its Think Progress blog, stating that Antelope Valley represented “the cutting edge of the clean energy economy.”

    Though the think tank didn’t disclose it, First Solar belonged to CAP’s Business Alliance, according to internal lists obtained by The Nation. Meanwhile, Josť Villarreal—a consultant at the power-
house law and lobbying firm Akin Gump, who “provides strategic counseling on a range of legal and policy issues” for 
corporations—was on First Solar’s board until April 2012 while also sitting on the board of CAP, where he remains a member, according to the group’s latest tax filing.

    CAP is a strong proponent of alternative energy, so there’s no reason to doubt the sincerity of its advocacy. But the fact that CAP has received financial support from First Solar while touting its virtues to Washington policy-makers points to a conflict of interest that, critics argue, ought to be disclosed to the public. CAP’s promotion of the company’s interests has supplemented First Solar’s aggressive Washington lobbying efforts, on which it spent more than $800,000 during 2011 and 2012.

    “The only thing more damaging than disclosing your donors and having questions raised about the independence of your work is not disclosing them and have the information come to light and undermine your work,” says Sheila Krumholz, executive director of the Center for Responsive Politics. “The best practice, whether required by the IRS or not, is to disclose contributions.”

    Nowadays, many Washington think tanks effectively serve as unregistered lobbyists for corporate donors, and companies strategically contribute to them just as they hire a PR or lobby shop or make campaign donations. And unlike lobbyists and elected officials, think tanks are not subject to financial disclosure requirements, so they reveal their donors only if they choose to. That makes it impossible for the public and lawmakers to know if a think tank is putting out an impartial study or one that’s been shaped by a donor’s political agenda. “If you’re a lobbyist, whatever you say is heavily discounted,” says Kathleen Clark, a law professor at Washington University and an expert on political ethics. “If a think tank is saying it, it obviously sounds a lot better. Maybe think tanks aren’t aware of how useful that makes them to private interests. On the other hand, maybe it’s part of their revenue model.”
    The Secret Donors Behind the Center for American Progress and Other Think Tanks [Updated on 5/24]

    do you know katrina vanden heuvel?

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    Re: IRS official Lois Lerner to take the Fifth

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithros View Post
    How am I dodging anything?

    The only group to be denied 501(c)(4) status was a liberal group. Conservatives 501(c) groups outspent liberals 85%-11% in spending from non-disclosed donors. These are hardly indications that conservatives were subjected to excess partisan hardship. Instead, all evidence points to conservative groups making a concerted effort to exploit 501(c)(4) status.
    You are dodging right now. The issue isnt denial, its the type of investigation, the delay in processing, the requests for extra information---but you keep pressing that talking point, it means jack and squat.

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    Re: IRS official Lois Lerner to take the Fifth

    Quote Originally Posted by OpportunityCost View Post
    You are dodging right now. The issue isnt denial, its the type of investigation, the delay in processing, the requests for extra information---but you keep pressing that talking point, it means jack and squat.

    Please, I'm very slow. I need you to point out exactly the question that I am dodging. So far, you've managed to misread my post, demand explanations for positions that I've never taken, and then make claims that i'm dodging because I didn't defend the strawman position of which you insisted that i'm taking.

    But you are right. Reading through my posts I've made a serious error. I should correct this post:
    http://www.debatepolitics.com/breaki...post1061844985

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    Re: IRS official Lois Lerner to take the Fifth

    This agrees quite nicely with the ratio
    then why is obama so outraged?

    http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2013/05/...rs-outrageous/

    A federal agency is under fire from politicians on both sides of the aisle. President Barack Obama says he will not tolerate the Internal Revenue Service being used for political purposes.

    He promised to get to the bottom of the agency’s admission it targeted conservative groups, CBS 2’s Marcia Kramer reported on Monday.

    This is something people are properly concerned about,” Obama said.

    The president reacted for the first time to reports from the IRS’ own inspector general that the tax agency targeted conservative groups.

    According to the agency’s own inspector general, it started in the spring of 2010 when the tea party movement was gaining steam. IRS specialists were told to focus on groups with “political sounding names” seeking tax exempt status. Groups with names like “we the people” or “take back the country,” Kramer reported.

    Later, agents got updated orders to be on the lookout for tea party application or groups whose mission was to “educate about the constitution” or “advocate for smaller government,” Kramer reported.

    The issue was raised a year ago, in the spring of 2012, when the then-head of the IRS, Douglas Shulman, was asked by members of Congress about complaints from tea party groups.

    “There is absolutely no targeting. This is the kind of back and forth that happens when people apply,” Shulman said.

    However, the inspector general’s timeline has the practice going on at least a year earlier.
    and why was miller fired?

    why is choo choo baucus conducting hearings in upper parliament?

    and why the doj criminal investigation?

    oh yeah, that's right---eric holder's worldview

    LOL!

    you must be lonely

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    Re: IRS official Lois Lerner to take the Fifth

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithros View Post
    Please, I'm very slow. I need you to point out exactly the question that I am dodging. So far, you've managed to misread my post, demand explanations for positions that I've never taken, and then make claims that i'm dodging because I didn't defend the strawman position of which you insisted that i'm taking.

    But you are right. Reading through my posts I've made a serious error. I should correct this post:
    http://www.debatepolitics.com/breaki...post1061844985
    You seem to be adhering like grim death to the idea that because 1 liberal group was denied and no conservative groups were there was no wrongdoing. That kind of narrow point of view ignores numerous data points that show there was wrongdoing.

    If you want to conduct yourself in such a way, thats your problem, I want the whole story not just the story that supports my fellow political travelers.

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    Re: IRS official Lois Lerner to take the Fifth

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithros View Post
    Please, I'm very slow. I need you to point out

    exactly the question that I am dodging. So far, you've managed to misread my post, demand explanations for positions that I've never taken, and then make claims that i'm dodging because I didn't defend the strawman position of which you insisted that i'm taking.

    But you are right. Reading through my posts I've made a serious error. I should correct this post:
    http://www.debatepolitics.com/breaki...post1061844985
    If there is no evidence of targeting and harrasing Conservative groups, then why is there a bi-partisan push to find answers from IRS officials who've taken the fifth ?

    If there is no crime, then why are they purposely trying to stall any investigation ?

    Is Max Baucus wrong too ?

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    Re: IRS official Lois Lerner to take the Fifth

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithros View Post
    This is what I based my analysis on, These are 501(c)(3) and 501(c)(4) advocacy groups approved through May 9th 2013.
    http://www.irs.gov/PUP/newsroom/Appr...209%202013.pdf

    This is the source that Fox News used to generate their graphic.
    Groups that sought tax-exempt status say IRS dealings were a nightmare - The Washington Post

    and the Washington Post sourced SOI Tax Stats - Exempt Organizations Business Master File Extract (EO BMF)

    Note two things. First Fox News ignored any mention of Patriot, 9/12, or constitution as mentioned in the Washington Post article. Second, and more importantly, the Washington Post article was looking for Non-Profit organizations. This includes all of the different 501(c) organizations as well as 527 organizations.

    This is a great example of terrible reporting. We are talking about using the keywords "Tea Party", "912" and "Patriots" to determine which 501(c)(4) organizations engaged in excess political activity. If the Progressive groups are filing as 527's and the Tea Party groups are filing as 501(c)(3) and 501(c)(4)s... Then it's kind of not the same thing.
    Nor is the IRS approving "PRISM (PROGRESSIVE RESEARCH IN SPORTS MEDICINE) FOUNDATION" and "PROGRESSIVE EQUESTRIAN THERAPEUTIC SERVICES INC" a result of political bias.

    I can understand why you'd see a graph like this and see why you'd be upset. But I'm not sure how your misleading graphic makes me look foolish. And for the record, I saw your graph and realized that it contradicted everything that I previously knew. So I dug into how they arrived at those numbers.
    you are unbearable. you are not talking to some average forum user i can smell a bull crapper a mile away and you reek. you are manipulating data and a failed endeavor to back peddle out of being made a fool

    what you attempting to do is compare all the groups with 9/12, constitution, patriot and Tea Party in their titles to groups with with just "progressive" in their titles
    Of course you will have greater sum of groups using all those words in their titles when you just compare groups with just that one word in their titles

    And your attempting to pass that off as a fair comparison? That is about as a unjust inequitable comparison ive seen. you are shameless doing so. And you just insulted my intelligents thinking i will fall for it

    try again. but i suggest you give up you have been exposed for the liberal bull crapper you are
    Last edited by trfjr; 05-26-13 at 04:34 PM.

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