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Thread: IRS official Lois Lerner to take the Fifth

  1. #281
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    Re: IRS official Lois Lerner to take the Fifth

    Quote Originally Posted by The Prof View Post
    LOL!

    welcome to the club



    indication?

    well, even the ostriches...

    i mean, we can understand how they wouldn't see what's so violently circling around em

    but you'd think they'd at least have heard

    DOJ opens criminal probe into IRS - The Hill

    all the other big birds are screeching
    Humans are intuitively bad at statistics. So when when most of us see a statistical report, we don't understand what it is actually saying. Our lack of understanding then allow us to latch on to the pieces in the report which most support our world-view.

    For example, say you suspect that some employees are on drugs. You decide to test all of them with a drug test that's 99% accurate. One employee tests positive, what's the chance that they were actually on drugs?

    Most people would say 99%, but that's not correct. The answer is that you can't know without more information. Counter-intuitively, you first need to know the percentage of employees on drugs. For example, if you have 100 employees, 1 is on drugs, and 1 tests positive, then there is only a 50/50 chance that you caught the right person. If none are on drugs then you certainly caught an innocent person. On the other hand, if all of the employees are on drugs then the employee is certainly guilty, and only catching one is a statistically anomalous result.

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    Re: IRS official Lois Lerner to take the Fifth

    the pieces in the report which most support our world-view
    eric holder's worldview?

    LOL!

    THE TWILIGHT ZONE THEME - YouTube

    are YOU on drugs?

  3. #283
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    Re: IRS official Lois Lerner to take the Fifth

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithros View Post
    Humans are intuitively bad at statistics. So when when most of us see a statistical report, we don't understand what it is actually saying. Our lack of understanding then allow us to latch on to the pieces in the report which most support our world-view.

    For example, say you suspect that some employees are on drugs. You decide to test all of them with a drug test that's 99% accurate. One employee tests positive, what's the chance that they were actually on drugs?

    Most people would say 99%, but that's not correct. The answer is that you can't know without more information. Counter-intuitively, you first need to know the percentage of employees on drugs. For example, if you have 100 employees, 1 is on drugs, and 1 tests positive, then there is only a 50/50 chance that you caught the right person. If none are on drugs then you certainly caught an innocent person. On the other hand, if all of the employees are on drugs then the employee is certainly guilty, and only catching one is a statistically anomalous result.
    No its Ideologue liberals like yourself that is bad at being informed.
    every post you make lacks any type of creditability until you are able to explain how you can make false statements like this "four times as many conservative groups were approved than liberal groups"
    then when asked how many Tea Party groups was approved between 2009 and 2011 and how many Progressive groups was approved during the same time frame? you then says you have no idea. when they actual truth is only 3 Tea Party groups was approved between 2009 and 2011. during the same time period 65 progressive groups received their C4 status. so the correct claim is over 20 times as many liberal groups received their status than conservative groups.
    So don't you lecture us in statistics when you cant even get simple facts correct and the capability to do grade school math
    Last edited by trfjr; 05-26-13 at 03:00 PM.

  4. #284
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    Re: IRS official Lois Lerner to take the Fifth

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithros View Post
    Our media is terrible. They print the sensational headline but never bother to explain the much less explosive reality.

    There's no indication that only conservative groups were investigated. There's not even evidence that conservative groups faced more scrutiny than liberal groups. In fact, the only group which had it's status refused was a charter of a previously approved Democratic leaning organization. Not only was it rejected, but the entire national group lost it's 501c4 status..

    What we know is that the words Tea Party, and Patriot were used as part of the process to identify potentially political groups. We also know that four times as many conservative groups were approved than liberal groups. This was politically insensitive, but those keywords *should* be flags.
    Actually, there is. Why the denial?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: IRS official Lois Lerner to take the Fifth

    Quote Originally Posted by trfjr View Post
    then how in the hell can you claim this if you don't know "four times as many conservative groups were approved than liberal groups" what are you doing parroting something you read on Mother Jones or Buzz feed. So I'm calling you creditability and integrity into question you might think you can come to these forums and spread you uninformed falsehoods but you wont get away with it when i am around

    I will tell you the amount because you have proven you are not informed and just a straight up bull crapper

    only 3 Tea Party groups was approved between 2009 and 2011
    during the same time period 65 progressive groups received their C4 status

    Attachment 67147945


    so what was that absurdly false claim again "four times as many conservative groups were approved than liberal groups"
    the correct claim is over 20 times as many liberal groups received their status than conservative groups

    Sir you have proven you have no creditability or integrity, i will continue to monitor your post and i will call you out on every lie, every falsehood, and all the misinformation you try to spread
    so i advise you to get your self better informed or i will continue to make a fool out of you
    This is what I based my analysis on, These are 501(c)(3) and 501(c)(4) advocacy groups approved through May 9th 2013.
    http://www.irs.gov/PUP/newsroom/Appr...209%202013.pdf

    This is the source that Fox News used to generate their graphic.
    Groups that sought tax-exempt status say IRS dealings were a nightmare - The Washington Post

    and the Washington Post sourced SOI Tax Stats - Exempt Organizations Business Master File Extract (EO BMF)

    Note two things. First Fox News ignored any mention of Patriot, 9/12, or constitution as mentioned in the Washington Post article. Second, and more importantly, the Washington Post article was looking for Non-Profit organizations. This includes all of the different 501(c) organizations as well as 527 organizations.

    This is a great example of terrible reporting. We are talking about using the keywords "Tea Party", "912" and "Patriots" to determine which 501(c)(4) organizations engaged in excess political activity. If the Progressive groups are filing as 527's and the Tea Party groups are filing as 501(c)(3) and 501(c)(4)s... Then it's kind of not the same thing.
    Nor is the IRS approving "PRISM (PROGRESSIVE RESEARCH IN SPORTS MEDICINE) FOUNDATION" and "PROGRESSIVE EQUESTRIAN THERAPEUTIC SERVICES INC" a result of political bias.

    I can understand why you'd see a graph like this and see why you'd be upset. But I'm not sure how your misleading graphic makes me look foolish. And for the record, I saw your graph and realized that it contradicted everything that I previously knew. So I dug into how they arrived at those numbers.

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    Re: IRS official Lois Lerner to take the Fifth

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Actually, there is. Why the denial?

    If you could give me the evidence, I'd really appreciate it.

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    Re: IRS official Lois Lerner to take the Fifth

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithros View Post
    If you could give me the evidence, I'd really appreciate it.
    Where have you been? Seriously, why the denial? Even Democrat congress critters are calling BS on this one. Obama even called BS! Dear Leader said it's BS and you still deny any wrong doing took place?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: IRS official Lois Lerner to take the Fifth

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithros View Post
    Our media is terrible. They print the sensational headline but never bother to explain the much less explosive reality.

    There's no indication that only conservative groups were investigated. There's not even evidence that conservative groups faced more scrutiny than liberal groups. In fact, the only group which had it's status refused was a charter of a previously approved Democratic leaning organization. Not only was it rejected, but the entire national group lost it's 501c4 status..

    What we know is that the words Tea Party, and Patriot were used as part of the process to identify potentially political groups. We also know that four times as many conservative groups were approved than liberal groups. This was politically insensitive, but those keywords *should* be flags.
    Youre kidding me. They asked some very invasive questions that were borderline constitutional intrusions and you have the balls to say they werent investigated?

    I know you have been reading on the subject so is it willfull ignorance, willfull blindness, or just BSing us?

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    Re: IRS official Lois Lerner to take the Fifth

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Where have you been? Seriously, why the denial? Even Democrat congress critters are calling BS on this one. Obama even called BS! Dear Leader said it's BS and you still deny any wrong doing took place?
    Apparently after reading through the last few pages, his base argument seems to be that this is all a concoction of the terrible media and bad reporting. As well as humans being bad at statistics. Someone should get that info to Lois Lerner ASAP and then maybe she can retract her earlier statement that what the IRS did was wrong, and the IRS is sorry for it. Hell someone should let her know that owing to this rather obtuse reasoning there was not even any need for her to say, that's not how we go about selecting cases for further review. Apparently what she should have said is the IRS did nothing wrong, the IRS is not sorry for it and that is the way the IRS goes about selecting cases for review.
    Last edited by Gie; 05-26-13 at 04:03 PM.

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    Re: IRS official Lois Lerner to take the Fifth

    Quote Originally Posted by trfjr View Post
    No its Ideologue liberals like yourself that is bad at being informed.
    every post you make lacks any type of creditability until you are able to explain how you can make false statements like this "four times as many conservative groups were approved than liberal groups"
    then when asked how many Tea Party groups was approved between 2009 and 2011 and how many Progressive groups was approved during the same time frame? you then says you have no idea. when they actual truth is only 3 Tea Party groups was approved between 2009 and 2011. during the same time period 65 progressive groups received their C4 status. so the correct claim is over 20 times as many liberal groups received their status than conservative groups.
    So don't you lecture us in statistics when you cant even get simple facts correct and the capability to do grade school math
    This is unfortunately incorrect. Unlike the Washington Post, which considered all 501(c) and 527 organizations; we're talking about abuses of only 501(c)(4) status.

    Outside Spending by Disclosure, Excluding Party Committees | OpenSecrets
    It's very clear that there has been a huge increase in political spending by groups which avoid disclosure. Furthermore, conservative groups account for 85% of non disclosed political spending as compared to only 11% for liberals. This agrees quite nicely with the ratio of groups approved in 2012.

    If your complaint is that Conservative groups applying for 501(c) statuses that don't require disclosure were targeted at a higher rate than liberal groups applying for the same status, then why do conservative groups account for so much more of non disclosure spending. Conservatives make up 66% of outside spending, but 85% of non-disclosed spending. Liberals make up 31% of outside spending, but only 11% of non-disclosed spending.
    Last edited by Mithros; 05-26-13 at 04:03 PM.

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