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Thread: IRS official Lois Lerner to take the Fifth

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    Re: IRS official Lois Lerner to take the Fifth

    Quote Originally Posted by Perotista View Post
    It is her right to take the 5th.
    But giving a statement then pleading the 5th will result in the court deciding if that's legal. When you take the 5th you say nothing.
    Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. It is inaccurate to say that I hate everything. I am strongly in favor of common sense, common honesty, and common decency. This makes me forever ineligible for public office. H.L Mencken

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    Re: IRS official Lois Lerner to take the Fifth

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithros View Post
    They didn't. Crossroads GPS was never approved. The law allows groups to act like they've been approved for 501(c)(4) status before they've been approved. In fact, Priorities USA never even applied for the status.
    No, the law allows them to self declare. They do not need approval. Some see it prudent to get a determination letter (the IRS agreeing they qualify) because their qualifications are questionable.

    http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/501c4-vs-501c3-vs-527/

    http://www.irs.gov/Charities-&-Non-P...-Organizations

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    Re: IRS official Lois Lerner to take the Fifth

    much to do about nothing
    Carney: White House counsel's office knew of review of IRS office 3 weeks ago, but not Obama - Washington Post

    Obama called such behavior “outrageous” and said anyone involved needs to be “held fully accountable.”

    The IRS has apologized for what it calls “inappropriate” targeting of conservative political groups during the 2012 election to see if they were violating their tax-exempt status.
    why can't obama state flatly when he knew about what was going on at his irs for 2 years?

    http://www.politico.com/story/2013/0...ing-91491.html

    why did lerner, shulman and miller testify falsely before congress?

    why weren't progressive groups subject to the same treatment?

    http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/n...-hold/2159983/

    why do half million dollar donors to ofa get regular attendance at white house quarterly meetings?

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...n_3068648.html
    Last edited by The Prof; 05-24-13 at 11:55 PM.

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    Re: IRS official Lois Lerner to take the Fifth

    Quote Originally Posted by austrianecon View Post
    But giving a statement then pleading the 5th will result in the court deciding if that's legal. When you take the 5th you say nothing.
    So we will wait and see what the court says.
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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    Re: IRS official Lois Lerner to take the Fifth

    some of you ostriches really need to pull your head out

    politico tuesday, round table discussion (allen, vandehei, romano, thrush) on "why the irs scandal is so serious"

    Video: IRS scandal: How Obama admin is hurting itself (POLITICO Junkies) - POLITICO.com

    the white house story keeps shifting, it's "lame"

    why do they keep sending carney out there uninformed?

    how can the president claim to have learned in the newspaper?

    how could his cos know without telling?

    "bipartisan agreement that this is a big deal"

    it's not going away...

    open your eyes and see (or not)

    happy memorial day

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    Re: IRS official Lois Lerner to take the Fifth

    Quote Originally Posted by upsideguy View Post
    It is much to do about nothing. I actually have a decent understanding of what is happening here and most do not. It is actually quite comical how politicians and their constituencies are falling all over themselves crying for jail time, firings, impeachment, etc. When this all shakes out, people are going to feel quite foolish and those that tried to tell us how this was the greatest scandal since (well, the last greatest scandal) are going to look quite foolish.

    The emperor has no clothes. The Cons will wish they spent this time and attention on Benghazi (or better yet, the AP scandal).
    Im not saying it makes sense or that its right, but people dislike the IRS almost instinctively. This makes believing the worst of it easily believable and makes it much harder to explain away. This scandal doesnt have a lot of moving parts, its not a complicated policy subject, its a matter of pure political power use and possible abuse.

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    Re: IRS official Lois Lerner to take the Fifth

    Quote Originally Posted by OpportunityCost View Post
    Im not saying it makes sense or that its right, but people dislike the IRS almost instinctively. This makes believing the worst of it easily believable and makes it much harder to explain away. This scandal doesnt have a lot of moving parts, its not a complicated policy subject, its a matter of pure political power use and possible abuse.
    You sir, are closer to the truth then all but a few people on this board..... except, at the end of the day, there isn't really a strategic abuse of power; its lower level people that took short-cuts to get the job done.

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    Re: IRS official Lois Lerner to take the Fifth

    it's lower level people
    that remains to be seen, you wouldn't want to pre judge, would you?

    I sat in a White House chief of staff’s office every day for more than two years. The only reason the legal counsel would tell the chief of staff about an impending report or disclosure would be so the chief of staff could tell the president. The legal counsel would assume the chief of staff would know how and when to bring up the matter. The chief of staff would be expected to know if there were additional factors surrounding the issue that needed to be considered before the president was told, or whether or not others needed to be included in the conversation when the information was shared with the president. There are many valid reasons why the chief of staff would tell the president, but I can’t think of a reason why he and the legal counsel would both agree that this news nugget would go no further. It’s very odd.

    The legal counsel would never assume that information shared with the chief of staff would not go to the president. In my experience, a legal counsel never would believe that there was information that was appropriate for the chief of staff to know but that was inappropriate for the president to know. Out of all the news that has emerged regarding the Obama IRS scandal, this is the most curious whopper I’ve heard so far. I can’t wait to hear the real story.
    The Insiders: A special prosecutor in the IRS matter is inevitable

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    Re: IRS official Lois Lerner to take the Fifth

    Quote Originally Posted by upsideguy View Post
    You sir, are closer to the truth then all but a few people on this board..... except, at the end of the day, there isn't really a strategic abuse of power; its lower level people that took short-cuts to get the job done.
    No, Im sorry. I can believe Lerner, especially, was deeply involved in this. A mid level bureaucrat like her doesnt just jump into action like that either. Somewhere higher in the food chain is where the direction came from or where the coverup is coming from. There are way too many up channel communications for either the direction or the coverup to not go upchannel. The question is how high up or who.

    As a primer for why this doesnt happen very often and why its not usually systematic read this:

    On section 1203 | Power Line

    The other thing I’d point out that is very odd about this is that IRS has been prohibited – by that same RRA98 – from using enforcement statistics to measure employee performance. Nobody’s allowed to rate you on how many cases you made, how many arrests, convictions, seizures, levies, taxes assessed, etc. Managers get in big trouble for that, but they still have to evaluate employee performance somehow, so the Service devised this whole scheme that revolves around time.

    Elapsed time on a case is a huge issue. Agents get dinged if they’ve got too many hours or if a case drags on for too long. It’s all tracked in the computerized case management system, and managers get in trouble with their managers if their “inventory” (and yes, that is the term that is used to describe your case load) has overage cases. I can’t stress enough how important this is to the Service, and every employee knows it. Your performance report is going to be affected by overage cases, too many hours on a case, etc., but more importantly, the manager’s performance report is going to be affected, and her manager’s, and so on.

    To have a statutory or Internal Revenue Manual deadline like 270 days to process something and to blow past without consequences is inconceivable to me. The day that thing went overage, the manager gets a report, and the employee gets asked why. The manager would keep getting reports until it was fixed, and if it wasn’t fixed soon, the SAC would be on the phone, because he or she is getting the same report, and his or her performance report (and bonuses) is on the line.

    I obviously can’t speak for EO, but in CID, for an agent to have multiple overage cases like that would be impossible. This simply could not happen without dire consequences for everyone in the chain, and as a result, it never happened.

    So, how do I explain a revenue agent in EO who has open cases that are 300 or even 700 days overdue? The only possible explanation is that management was okay with it, because it is absolutely impossible that they – and this includes everyone in the chain – didn’t know. Maybe they’ve got a good reason why they were okay with it, but the whole chain had to sign off on it. All the way to DC.

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