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Thread: IRS official Lois Lerner to take the Fifth

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    Re: IRS official Lois Lerner to take the Fifth

    Quote Originally Posted by upsideguy View Post
    No group was denied tax exempt status...
    That is true (eventually) but a large majority (63% - 188 of 296) of the sample group were not approved timely:

    For the 296 total political campaign intervention applications TIGTA reviewed as of December 17, 2012, 108 had been approved, 28 were withdrawn by the applicant, none had been denied, and 160 were open from 206 to 1,138 calendar days (some for more than to the Internal Revenue Service Acting three years and crossing two election cycles).
    IG report linked previously.

    Some delayed over TWO ELECTION CYCLES! Why would you presume this was the case if NOT for political reasons?...especially considering that 'progressive' groups were expeditiously approved...
    "The fact that we are here today to debate raising America's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure" - 2006 Senator Obama...leadership failure indeed!

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    Re: IRS official Lois Lerner to take the Fifth

    Point in case is the targeting by multiple government departments and agencies at the federal and state level, by elected officials, and by Democrat Party organizations of Catherine Engelbrecht, founder of True the Vote, a non-profit organization dedicated to ensuring honest elections and ballot integrity by targeting voter fraud.
    Was it all just a coincidence?
    Engelbrecht was hit up not just by the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) in delaying True the Vote’s still-unapproved application for tax-exempt status with mountains of invasive and improper follow-up questions — but also by the Occupational Safety Hazards Administration (Department of Labor) of Engelbrecht Manufacturing; several rounds of questioning by the FBI (Department of Justice) concerning her local meet up group, King Street Patriots; two audits by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms (Department of Justice) of her manufacturing plant; a separate IRS audit of her family business and personal income tax returns; and another audit by the Texas Commission on Environmental Quality.
    As reported by the Franklin Center for Government and Public Integrity’s Jillian Kay Melchior at National Review, this targeting resulted in a $17,500 fine from OSHA, plus a demand by the Texas agency for Engelbrecht to spend $42,000 for additional storage sheds, notes Breitbart.com’s Brandon Darby. The Texas targeting was supposedly the result of “a complaint being called in.”
    The OSHA fine came after “the OSHA inspector complimented them on their tightly run shop and said she didn’t know why she had been sent to examine it,” Melchior reports the Engelbrechts saying.
    Engelbrecht’s difficulties apparently originate with a 2010 skirmish with the Texas Democrat Party, which filed a lawsuit against her, as did an ACORN affiliate, charging the group had acted as a political action committee by providing poll watchers.
    On top of all that, True the Vote became subject to congressional scrutiny, Melchior notes, by Sen. Barbara Boxer (D-CA) in a letter to Department of Justice’s Thomas Perez — coincidentally Obama’s pick to head up the Labor Department — urging the group be investigated for “voter suppression.”
    Rep. Elijah Cummings (D-MD) wrote a letter directly to Englebrecht accusing her group of “illegal voter suppression” that if “intentional, politically-motivated, and widespread across multiple states they could amount to a criminal conspiracy to deny legitimate voters their constitutional rights.”


    Read more at NetRightDaily.com: Who coordinated multi-agency attack on tea party group? | NetRight Daily
    This isn't just the IRS involved here. Many reports are starting to surface that multiple government agencies hammered these people....All at the same time....IRS, DHS, FBI, OSHA, EPA, etc.....This was using the entirety of the Federal Government against political opponents of the President...

    Is this America anymore?
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    Re: IRS official Lois Lerner to take the Fifth

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickieboy View Post
    That is true (eventually) but a large majority (63% - 188 of 296) of the sample group were not approved timely:


    IG report linked previously.

    Some delayed over TWO ELECTION CYCLES! Why would you presume this was the case if NOT for political reasons?...especially considering that 'progressive' groups were expeditiously approved...
    Democrat voter suppression.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: IRS official Lois Lerner to take the Fifth

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    This isn't just the IRS involved here. Many reports are starting to surface that multiple government agencies hammered these people....All at the same time....IRS, DHS, FBI, OSHA, EPA, etc.....This was using the entirety of the Federal Government against political opponents of the President...

    Is this America anymore?
    Democrat voter suppression.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: IRS official Lois Lerner to take the Fifth

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Yeah, I saw that on Colbert too...Not sure if that is indeed the case...
    He's right (figure 1, page 2 of IG report) 'Must apply with IRS'-'No'...but it would seem prudent to apply to ensure that one is both above board and avoids 'unwinding' if declined. Considering the complexity of the tax law one wonders if approval is/was based on wind direction.
    "The fact that we are here today to debate raising America's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure" - 2006 Senator Obama...leadership failure indeed!

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    Re: IRS official Lois Lerner to take the Fifth

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    Democrat voter suppression.
    Sure smells like it. I have wondered since this surfaced 'what would a 'low level' IRS worker stand to gain (motivation) from participating in what they have been accused of? This question can be applied up the ladder also.
    "The fact that we are here today to debate raising America's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure" - 2006 Senator Obama...leadership failure indeed!

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    Re: IRS official Lois Lerner to take the Fifth

    Iv'e got Lawrence O'Donnell on my Facebook so I can read the left wing cray-crays rants and listen to them desperately try to justify Obama's corruption.

    MSNBC's ratings are tanking, ( now even more than ever ) because they are literally the Barrack Obama Network.

    They are ( O'Donnell's the worst ) just as twisted, dishonest and corrupt as Obama and his Ilk and their pathetic ratings show it.

    People, typically don't like being lied to, so they watch Fox and ignore MSNBC.

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    Re: IRS official Lois Lerner to take the Fifth

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickieboy View Post
    Sure smells like it. I have wondered since this surfaced 'what would a 'low level' IRS worker stand to gain (motivation) from participating in what they have been accused of? This question can be applied up the ladder also.
    Yup. It's a bit like eating lobster: who was the first person to think this was a good idea?
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: IRS official Lois Lerner to take the Fifth

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptinSarcastic View Post
    Wow, exercising one's Constitutional rights is an admission of being guilty of a crime?
    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    Taking the 5th in and of itself is not a crime.

    Nor can you infer guilt because she chose not to respond to the questions of Congress who are crooks themselves and who most of them should be in jail as well.
    Quote Originally Posted by head of joaquin View Post
    So the new tea party meme is if the 5th amendment imputes guilt to everybody who invokes that constitutional right?
    Okay, I know some of you may disagere with his statement (in some ways I'm in that camp as well), but ALL of you are reading words into his statement that he didn't have. If you're going to blast him, at least blast him for what he ACTUALLY said.

    Here's his statement.

    Quote Originally Posted by trfjr View Post
    you can only plead the fifth to keep from incriminating yourself in a crime. so she is admitting there was a crime
    Please highlight for me where he declares she's admitting there's GUILT on her part.

    What he stated was that by pleading the fifth she's indicating that there was a CRIME of some sort, IE that this is a criminal proceeding. The reason he likely says this:

    nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law
    Notice the bold. In any CRIMINAL case. The suggestiong trf is making in THAT post had NOTHING to do with the guilt or not, as is CLEAR based on his statement, but rather had to do with whether or not that it should mean there's a crime. It's based on the logic that one can only take the 5th in a CRIMINAL CASE and thus allowing her to take the 5th must mean this is Criminal in nature.

    Now there may be all kinds of issues with that logic, but NO WHERE in that logic does it suggest that it's an admission of GUILT. That's something all three of you, completely on your own volition, fabricated and inserted into his post as a strawman for you to beat.

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    Re: IRS official Lois Lerner to take the Fifth

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    she's guilty of being incompetent, but that's not a crime. The fact is no organization doing political work should get 501 c(4) tax exemption status. See post 176 above.
    Ah, and here you go again...wantonly extolling how it's perfectly okay for the government to actively enforce the law in an unequal manner against groups. How wonderfully progressive of you. Your only defense? Post 176, that doesn't actually defend it but offers up a non-explanation because it would only be relevant if the targetting of conservative groups was done organically...which wasn't the case because those groups were specifically SOUGHT OUT for additional screening.

    Pbrauer, a staunch defender of the governments right to unequally apply the law based on political beliefs of individuals.

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