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Thread: IRS official Lois Lerner to take the Fifth

  1. #151
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    Re: IRS official Lois Lerner to take the Fifth

    add ranking member cummings to the list of doubters

    Representative Elijah Cummings of Maryland, the ranking Democrat on the panel, criticized Shulman for not alerting Congress to the practice after testifying in March 2012 without mentioning it. He said it would have been "common sense" to "come back, even if it were a phone call or a letter."
    IRS official refuses to answer questions at scandal hearing | Reuters

    the 9-termer from baltimore is probably a racist

    wapo today: a special prosecutor is inevitable, better sooner than later

    link above

  2. #152
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    Re: IRS official Lois Lerner to take the Fifth

    Quote Originally Posted by The Prof View Post
    add ranking member cummings to the list of doubters



    IRS official refuses to answer questions at scandal hearing | Reuters

    the 9-termer from baltimore is probably a racist

    wapo today: a special prosecutor is inevitable, better sooner than later

    link above
    hey prof what is the crime?


  3. #153
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    Re: IRS official Lois Lerner to take the Fifth

    former commissioner douglas shulman, who testified yesterday that he didn't tell congress what he knew because he was operating under only "a partial set of facts," despite his having "adamantly denied" any tea party targeting in sworn testimony last year...

    today, former commissioner douglas shulman was forced to admit that he visited the white house, the logs show, 118 times

    and you never shared with your correspondents at any of those meetings that the irs, according to its own internal review, independent of tigta, was guilty of "significant bias" against obama's most hi profile enemies?

    despite the fact that the outrage was all over the news, despite the fact that you were getting grilled at the time in congress?

    that's hard to believe, mr shulman, just what were you talking about at the white house 118 times?

    shulman's answer:

    Video: Shulman's reason for W.H. visits: Easter Egg Roll - POLITICO.com

    "i have no memory..."

    "it wouldn't be appropriate..."

    hardly a denial, mr shulman

    in other words, tell it to the prosecutor
    Last edited by The Prof; 05-23-13 at 12:44 AM.

  4. #154
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    Re: IRS official Lois Lerner to take the Fifth

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    hey prof what is the crime?
    Unfortunately we just don't know...yet. But according to the AG:

    Essentially, there are three types of laws that might conceivably have been broken, as Attorney General Eric Holder acknowledged in his testimony before a House committee Wednesday:

    1) Civil rights laws that protect people from being discriminated against by the government

    2) The Hatch Act, which prevents civil servants from engaging in partisan political activity

    3) Perjury laws, which prevent people from lying to Congress
    Criminal Liability Of IRS Workers In Targeting Scandal Unclear

    What we DO know is that the IRS missed their filing date:

    Chairman Camp and Ranking Member Levin gave the IRS a deadline of Tuesday, May 21 to comply with their committee’s demand for the information and records.
    http://cnsnews.com/news/article/irs-...munications-wh

    Wondering if they will have to pay a late fee...as they impose on the public...and Obama is outraged...rrriiiigggghhhhtttt.
    Last edited by Dickieboy; 05-23-13 at 12:44 AM.
    "The fact that we are here today to debate raising America's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure" - 2006 Senator Obama...leadership failure indeed!

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    Re: IRS official Lois Lerner to take the Fifth


  6. #156
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    Re: IRS official Lois Lerner to take the Fifth

    I agree with Cummings: “This is one of the most alarming things that I have ever seen. I’m very concerned about it, we gotta get to the bottom of it, and by the way…we gotta do it in a bipartisan way.”

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    Re: IRS official Lois Lerner to take the Fifth

    politico asks

    Did the IRS just blame the victim?

    Former IRS Commissioner Douglas Shulman dropped this bit of advice during his testimony: targeted conservative groups could have just not applied for tax-exempt status at all.

    All they had to do, Shulman told the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee, was act like they were already a 501(c)(4) and then file their tax return that way.

    “There’s no need to go through the application process,” Shulman said in an exchange with Rep. Stephen Lynch (D-Mass.). “You can start up operations as a 501(c)(4) and file your return at the end of the year.”

    In fact, Shulman said, there was no evidence that any organizations had to shut down their operations because of the lengthy investigations.

    The inspector general’s office, however, has reported that 28 of the groups gave up and withdrew their applications because the process was taking so long.

    And the news that they didn’t really have to apply isn’t likely to give much relief to the groups that got the extra scrutiny.

    “I would remind him that it is well within our rights to take advantage of any and all tax statuses, and to choose to be ‘official’ is not wrong,” Toby Marie Walker of the Waco Tea Party said in an email. “Is he trying to shift the blame to the victims of the IRS targeting? If we did not ‘need’ to apply, then why did IRS not just send us a letter stating that?”
    IRS scandal hearing: Best moments - David Nather - POLITICO.com

    congressman lynch:

    Dem: There Will be Special Prosecutor and 'Hell to Pay' If IRS Keeps Stonewalling | CNS News

    wapo:

    WaPo: A special prosecutor in the IRS matter is inevitable

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    Re: IRS official Lois Lerner to take the Fifth

    politico calls it attitude

    as in, shulman is a "serial smirker"

    Over and over Wednesday, committee members asked Shulman why he didn’t correct his March 2012 testimony that there was “no targeting.” His story was always the same: He learned there was a list of search terms but didn’t know everything about how it was being used, so he left the job to the inspector general.
    therefore, since his knowledge base, he says, was just a "partial set of facts," he was able to testify in 2012 "there's absolutely no targeting," only "normal back and forth"

    “I didn’t know who was on the list, how it was being used, whether there were liberal groups as well as conservative groups,” Shulman said in an exchange with Elijah Cummings of Maryland, the top Democrat on the committee. “At that point, I didn’t have a full set of facts to come back to Congress with.”

    “Well, I’m sorry, that’s not good enough,” said Cummings.
    so the commish throws his successor, steven miller, obama's appointee, under the runaway bus

    Later, Shulman said his then-deputy — Steven Miller, who later became acting IRS commissioner until he was forced to resign — told him the practice had already been stopped.

    The responsible deputy told me it was being stopped. I had no reason to believe otherwise,” Shulman said.
    IRS scandal hearing: Best moments - David Nather - POLITICO.com

    i wonder what mr miller will have to say about that?

    so there's no reason to believe otherwise, huh, mr shulman?

    how bout the irs' internal review conducted by ms marks which informed you of "substantial bias" in may of 2012?

    keep insulting your questioners, mr commissioner

    that's the wise approach

    ask all the punks at dp

    wapo, the national journal, congressmen lynch and cummings, al hunt at bloomberg---they don't know what they're talking about

    they probably don't even attend the easter egg roll

    say hi to the prosecutor when you see him, it won't be long

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    Re: IRS official Lois Lerner to take the Fifth

    Quote Originally Posted by mpg View Post
    Is that the truth hurts scarecrow you use to scare off anyone who shows your hypocrisy?

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    Re: IRS official Lois Lerner to take the Fifth

    abc this morning:

    Did Lois Lerner botch her Fifth Amendment rights?

    After a key agency IRS official today invoked her Fifth Amendment right not to incriminate herself during congressional testimony, Oversight and Government Reform Chairman Darrell Issa said he will review legal precedent in order to determine whether Lois Lerner, the director of Exempt Organizations at the IRS, could be held in contempt of Congress.

    Although Lerner, who’s at the center of the controversy, refused to answer questions from members of the committee, she read a brief statement into the record declaring her innocence. Furthermore, at the request of Issa, Lerner authenticated a document containing her written answers for the inspector general’s investigation of the matter.

    Those actions prompted members of the committee to question whether Lerner effectively waived her right to invoke the Fifth Amendment.

    A Republican committee aide said the application of the Fifth Amendment has nothing to do with House or committee rules, but rather is a constitutional question. The aide said courts have interpreted that the Fifth must be asserted in the absolute, not partially.

    Sources also believe Lerner’s decision to read a statement into the record while invoking the Fifth may have been unprecedented for congressional testimony.

    One constitutional expert noted that generally people who claim the Fifth in hearings give no statement and it would be “unusual” to give a statement and still claim the Fifth.

    Most witnesses claiming the Fifth will not tempt fate by answering any questions,” said Michael Gerhardt, a University of North Carolina constitutional law professor who specializes in the relationship between Congress and the executive branch. “I suppose the witness might argue he or she is claiming the Fifth for limited purposes but then needs to have someone spell out the relevant scope.”
    Did Lois Lerner Botch Fifth Amendment Rights? - ABC News

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