Page 11 of 37 FirstFirst ... 91011121321 ... LastLast
Results 101 to 110 of 361

Thread: IRS official Lois Lerner to take the Fifth

  1. #101
    Sage
    Fenton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 11:25 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    26,304

    Re: IRS official Lois Lerner to take the Fifth

    Quote Originally Posted by 66gardeners View Post
    hahahahahahaha

    Ah - NO!
    According to POLITICO she's being called back to testify because by making her opening statement she waived her right to plead the 5th.

    What's wrong ? Scared she may reveal something that would incriminate Obama ?

    Here's a idea, next time take the whole 3 minutes it would have taken any normal individual to research who you were actually electing.

    Maybe if you had, your party wouldn't be neck deep in scandals right now.

  2. #102
    Sage


    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    SW Virginia
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 07:44 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    18,265

    Re: IRS official Lois Lerner to take the Fifth

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithros View Post
    Perhaps... I want to say that's a great idea, but I'm not sure that it's a good idea yet.

    One of the few interesting bits of the House hearing was when the Treasury was asked if there were criminal investigations underway. The answer was something along the lines of “it's improper to comment on any investigations that may or may not be ongoing.”

    The OIG report wasn't a smoking gun, but it does pose some pretty serious questions. It doesn't take much imagination to realize that those investigations are currently ongoing, including possibly criminal investigations.

    What if Lerner is a target of this investigation? I'd be surprised if she wasn't, even if no crime has been committed. What lawyer would advise her that it was a good idea to testify under oath to a series of unknown questions by hostile individuals?

    We know how these scandals go. There's some indication that something might be amiss. People make all sorts of statements assuming the worst. This invests them in the need to turn up something illegal. After lots of investigation, it turns out that it really wasn't that bad. But the investigators/politicians need someones head to put on a pike, so they go after the witnesses. Anyone who said anything that has proven to be not 100% is raked over the coals.

    Can anyone blame Lerner for acting in her own interest? Remember, she's not a politician. She's a career bureaucrat with a boring job in a boring department.
    Her job just got a lot more exciting. We know this involves more than two workers in Cincinnati, we know that people within the WH knew of this well in advance of the public announcement, and we know we're aren't getting cooperation from the IRS. Lerner had to use the 5th because, unlike others, she can't claim she doesn't know the very things her job entailed. So she knows who directed the effort, and that effort was systemic and not isolated. It is that bad, and growing. I fully expect her to be thrown under the proverbial bus unless she acts to protect herself. The administration will attempt to hold the damage line at some point to protect those higher up, and she's likely in that target area. The administration surely is aware that this mess is getting dangerously close to special prosecutor time, and I would think they'd like to avoid that unhappy outcome. I know I would prefer this be settled before that becomes necessary. I obviously agree there's a lot of grandstanding going on in the House, and even the WH to some extent. Obama is outraged. Heh. He has a lot to be outraged about. This thing is serious enough that the WH needs to settle it very soon or they will lose what control over it they now have.

  3. #103
    Guru

    Join Date
    May 2011
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 04:58 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    2,671

    Re: IRS official Lois Lerner to take the Fifth

    Quote Originally Posted by trfjr View Post
    ok wise guy explain this since your so smart if nothing was done that was wrong what is she worried about her incriminating her self against
    Legally she doesn't need a reason. She could be upset with the way the committee treated other witnesses. Or she could be thumbing her nose at them, or she could have had a bad day, or any of a million other reasons. That's the point of the 5th amendment. She's allowed to say that she doesn't want to testify, and the government can't infer anything from that.

    But since I'm guessing that isn't going to satisfy you, here's an example of a witness who was completely innocent of any wrongdoing, involved in a non-criminal investigation that didn't take the 5th, but probably should have.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/20/sp...mens.html?_r=0

  4. #104
    Sage
    Lutherf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Tucson, AZ
    Last Seen
    Today @ 12:30 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    24,676

    Re: IRS official Lois Lerner to take the Fifth

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithros View Post
    Legally she doesn't need a reason. She could be upset with the way the committee treated other witnesses. Or she could be thumbing her nose at them, or she could have had a bad day, or any of a million other reasons. That's the point of the 5th amendment. She's allowed to say that she doesn't want to testify, and the government can't infer anything from that.

    But since I'm guessing that isn't going to satisfy you, here's an example of a witness who was completely innocent of any wrongdoing, involved in a non-criminal investigation that didn't take the 5th, but probably should have.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/20/sp...mens.html?_r=0
    With all due respect, asserting her innocence WAS testimony.

  5. #105
    Guru

    Join Date
    May 2011
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 04:58 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    2,671

    Re: IRS official Lois Lerner to take the Fifth

    Quote Originally Posted by humbolt View Post
    Her job just got a lot more exciting. We know this involves more than two workers in Cincinnati, we know that people within the WH knew of this well in advance of the public announcement, and we know we're aren't getting cooperation from the IRS. Lerner had to use the 5th because, unlike others, she can't claim she doesn't know the very things her job entailed. So she knows who directed the effort, and that effort was systemic and not isolated. It is that bad, and growing. I fully expect her to be thrown under the proverbial bus unless she acts to protect herself. The administration will attempt to hold the damage line at some point to protect those higher up, and she's likely in that target area. The administration surely is aware that this mess is getting dangerously close to special prosecutor time, and I would think they'd like to avoid that unhappy outcome. I know I would prefer this be settled before that becomes necessary. I obviously agree there's a lot of grandstanding going on in the House, and even the WH to some extent. Obama is outraged. Heh. He has a lot to be outraged about. This thing is serious enough that the WH needs to settle it very soon or they will lose what control over it they now have.
    I think you've got the gist of it correct. She's high enough that the Republicans would claim victory by taking her down and low enough that the Democrats wouldn't fight it too hard. That puts her as the easy scapegoat.

    Had she testified, she's going to be attacked, by both sides, with questions her look culpable. Her choices are to have her reputation ruined by the national media, or expose herself up to perjury investigations, probably both. If she pleads the fifth, she'll be forgotten in a week. Regardless of the facts, it would seem that the 5th is in her best interest.

  6. #106
    Sage


    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    SW Virginia
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 07:44 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    18,265

    Re: IRS official Lois Lerner to take the Fifth

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithros View Post
    Perhaps... I want to say that's a great idea, but I'm not sure that it's a good idea yet.

    One of the few interesting bits of the House hearing was when the Treasury was asked if there were criminal investigations underway. The answer was something along the lines of “it's improper to comment on any investigations that may or may not be ongoing.”

    The OIG report wasn't a smoking gun, but it does pose some pretty serious questions. It doesn't take much imagination to realize that those investigations are currently ongoing, including possibly criminal investigations.

    What if Lerner is a target of this investigation? I'd be surprised if she wasn't, even if no crime has been committed. What lawyer would advise her that it was a good idea to testify under oath to a series of unknown questions by hostile individuals?

    We know how these scandals go. There's some indication that something might be amiss. People make all sorts of statements assuming the worst. This invests them in the need to turn up something illegal. After lots of investigation, it turns out that it really wasn't that bad. But the investigators/politicians need someones head to put on a pike, so they go after the witnesses. Anyone who said anything that has proven to be not 100% is raked over the coals.

    Can anyone blame Lerner for acting in her own interest? Remember, she's not a politician. She's a career bureaucrat with a boring job in a boring department.
    I apologize. I just read that Lerner's being called back. I've been busy and just caught up a bit. You know, there are some times when having your attorney with you is the best course.

  7. #107
    Guru

    Join Date
    May 2011
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 04:58 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    2,671

    Re: IRS official Lois Lerner to take the Fifth

    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    With all due respect, asserting her innocence WAS testimony.
    I don't know enough about the mechanics of what constitutes testimony and what doesn't. Maybe she didn't plead the 5th correctly, I'll leave that question for the constitutional experts.

    She still had/has a right to plead the 5th, and it does'nt mean anything other than she thought it better to take the public hit to her reputation by pleading the 5th than it would be to testify.

  8. #108
    Sage

    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Last Seen
    05-16-15 @ 02:32 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    12,537

    Re: IRS official Lois Lerner to take the Fifth

    It's almost cute
    not really

    This administration’s management of the Obama Internal Revenue Service scandal so far consists of a slow-walking, rolling disclosure of facts; equal parts equivocation, amnesia and indignation from IRS witnesses; deer-in-the-headlights non-responses by the White House press secretary; parsed, lawyerly statements from the president himself; and now one of the central key players is taking the Fifth. And all this comes from what the president claimed would be the “most transparent administration ever…”

    If we give the president the benefit of the doubt and assume he knows the truth is going to come out, the question remains: Does the administration appoint the special prosecutor sooner or later? The calculus inside the White House is how to best protect the president’s political interests. They have two options. They could delay the appointment and let more of the story develop, weather the ugly piecemeal disclosures, give the players time to get their stories straight and lawyer-up and hope Republicans continue their overreach, giving the whole affair a nutty partisan patina. Or, they could accelerate the appointment of a special prosecutor, thereby slowing the congressional inquiries and giving Jay Carney some relief from his daily embarrassing routine by supplying him with the escape hatch of not being allowed to comment on matters associated with the special prosecutor’s ongoing investigation. Not to mention, the White House all the while could blast the appointed counsel as a partisan ideologue à la the hatchet job that was done on Ken Starr.

    Anyway, if the president is innocent, he will end up needing and wanting a special prosecutor sooner rather than later. If he and his White House already have too much to hide, then they must clam up, cry partisanship and hope their allies on the Hill and in the media have the stamina for the long, hard slog ahead.

    My personal favorite of all the new revelations from the Obama IRS scandal is that White House Counsel Kathryn Ruemmler told White House Chief of Staff Denis McDonough about the impending IRS inspector general report, but of course the White House chief of staff did not tell the president.

    I sat in a White House chief of staff’s office every day for more than two years. The only reason the legal counsel would tell the chief of staff about an impending report or disclosure would be so the chief of staff could tell the president. The legal counsel would assume the chief of staff would know how and when to bring up the matter. The chief of staff would be expected to know if there were additional factors surrounding the issue that needed to be considered before the president was told, or whether or not others needed to be included in the conversation when the information was shared with the president. There are many valid reasons why the chief of staff would tell the president, but I can’t think of a reason why he and the legal counsel would both agree that this news nugget would go no further. It’s very odd.

    The legal counsel would never assume that information shared with the chief of staff would not go to the president. In my experience, a legal counsel never would believe that there was information that was appropriate for the chief of staff to know but that was inappropriate for the president to know. Out of all the news that has emerged regarding the Obama IRS scandal, this is the most curious whopper I’ve heard so far. I can’t wait to hear the real story.
    WaPo: A special prosecutor in the IRS matter is inevitable

    the president is lying, it is impossible for his cos to know without telling obama

    there will be a special prosecutor---people like lerner, shulman, miller, carney and obama make it inevitable

    why can't obama state flatly when he found out what was going on at his irs for 2 years?

    A Democrat on the House’s investigative committee raised the specter of a special prosecutor on Wednesday to investigate political targeting of conservative groups at the IRS from 2010 to 2012.

    Rep. Stephen Lynch, Massachusetts Democrat, warned IRS and Treasury Department witnesses before the Committee on Oversight and Government Reform not to stonewall congressional efforts to get to the bottom of the scandal.

    We know where that will lead, it will lead to a special prosecutor. … There will be hell to pay if that’s the route that we choose to go down,” he said.
    Democrat raises prospect of special prosecutor for IRS - Washington Times

    lawyer up, y'all

  9. #109
    Guru

    Join Date
    May 2011
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 04:58 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    2,671

    Re: IRS official Lois Lerner to take the Fifth

    Quote Originally Posted by humbolt View Post
    I apologize. I just read that Lerner's being called back. I've been busy and just caught up a bit. You know, there are some times when having your attorney with you is the best course.
    No apology necessary. I was mostly agreeing with you anyway.

    It'll be interesting to see what they do when they have her back. If they can compel her to testify without any immunity, than someone needs to be taken to the woodshed for incompetence.

  10. #110
    Sage

    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Last Seen
    05-16-15 @ 02:32 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    12,537

    Re: IRS official Lois Lerner to take the Fifth

    If she pleads the fifth, she'll be forgotten in a week
    IRS scandal hearing: Lerner will be called back - POLITICO

Page 11 of 37 FirstFirst ... 91011121321 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •