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Thread: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

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    re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    You've merely shown that the contradiction has been codified in federal law. What is the rationale of that law if not that the fetus is human?
    Quite right. Which is why "The Unborn Victims of Violence Act was strongly opposed by most pro-choice organizations, on grounds that the U.S. Supreme Court's Roe v. Wade decision said that the human fetus is not a "person" under the Fourteenth Amendment to the Constitution, and that if the fetus were a Fourteenth Amendment "person," then he or she would have a constitutional right to life".

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    re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Quite right. Which is why "The Unborn Victims of Violence Act was strongly opposed by most pro-choice organizations, on grounds that the U.S. Supreme Court's Roe v. Wade decision said that the human fetus is not a "person" under the Fourteenth Amendment to the Constitution, and that if the fetus were a Fourteenth Amendment "person," then he or she would have a constitutional right to life".
    From UVVA

    18 USC 1841 - Protection of unborn children | Title 18 - Crimes and Criminal Procedure | U.S. Code | LII / Legal Information Institute

    (c) Nothing in this section shall be construed to permit the prosecution—
    (1) of any person for conduct relating to an abortion for which the consent of the pregnant woman, or a person authorized by law to act on her behalf, has been obtained or for which such consent is implied by law;

    (2) of any person for any medical treatment of the pregnant woman or her unborn child; or

    (3) of any woman with respect to her unborn child.

    (d) As used in this section, the term “unborn child” means a child in utero, and the term “child in utero” or “child, who is in utero” means a member of the species homo sapiens, at any stage of development, who is carried in the womb.
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    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
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    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    Fla. Man Accused of Killing Ex-Girlfriend's Fetus - ABC News

    Ex-girlfriend was six weeks, five days pregnant, by her ex-boyfriend. Ex-boyfriend didn't want to have a child, ex-girlfriend did.

    Ex-boyfriend tricked her into taking a pill that caused her to go into labor and lose the "baby".

    He is now charged with first-degree murder.

    Doesn't the crime of murder require a "person" to be killed? Doesn't abortion law tell us that a fetus that is six weeks, five days old is not a person?

    Shouldn't the pro-choice, pro-abortion crowd be outraged that this charge was laid and what is the impact going forward if he is convicted of first-degree murder?
    Why? Part of being pro-choice is that the woman gets to decide the fate of the ZEF. If the woman decided that she did indeed want to have that child then by default it is a child with full rights. That is where alot of anti-abortionists get confused with the whole "pro-choice" ideology. You might have a case with those that are pro-abortion but I'm not really sure as I am not pro-abortion and don't know thier side as well.
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    re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    From your article



    Notice how even the girls lawyer is not arguing that the fetus had any rights. Instead, he is arguing that the girl was deprived of her right to choose whether or not to have a child.

    No matter how hard you try to twist the facts, the truth is that this case is supported by the pro-choice philosophy.
    The article said that the man was charged with first degree murder right? You can't murder something not recognized as human or deserving of human rights.

    A law that says otherwise ranks high on the stupid ****ing law'o'meter.
    I believe half of the things I say and say half of the things I believe.

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    re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    Fla. Man Accused of Killing Ex-Girlfriend's Fetus - ABC News

    Ex-girlfriend was six weeks, five days pregnant, by her ex-boyfriend. Ex-boyfriend didn't want to have a child, ex-girlfriend did.

    Ex-boyfriend tricked her into taking a pill that caused her to go into labor and lose the "baby".

    He is now charged with first-degree murder.

    Doesn't the crime of murder require a "person" to be killed? Doesn't abortion law tell us that a fetus that is six weeks, five days old is not a person?

    Shouldn't the pro-choice, pro-abortion crowd be outraged that this charge was laid and what is the impact going forward if he is convicted of first-degree murder?
    I think this is rather hypocritical.

    Both parents should have equal legal right to a baby. When a woman kills a man's baby without his consent, it's just "tough titties, bro", but when a guy does it, it's murder.

    He should definitely be charged with like poisoning or assault or whatever, but calling it murder is rather ridiculous if we're not going to call any actions from a woman murder.

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    re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by Viktyr Gehrig View Post
    It can't be his baby while it's part of her body. Even leaving aside the issue of her bodily autonomy, he's incapable of acting toward that child in any paternal capacity until after it is born.
    Actually, if I'm not mistaken, scientific research has indicated that the father can interact with the unborn child in the womb - outside influences can be sensed/felt - and a father can care for and tend to the mother as a means to "father" his child even if he cares less for the woman involved - all paternal instincts to be encouraged.
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    re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Nope

    Unborn Victims of Violence Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



    Murder is a charge under United States Code: Title 18, Chapter 1 (Crimes), 1111

    In this case, they are being charged under United States Code: Title 18, Chapter 1 (Crimes), 1841

    Not the same
    Seems to me abortion was against several laws before pro-choice advocates challenged it in the courts. Simply citing the law doesn't answer the question about why, in the pro-choice mind, harming a fetus before it's viable is murder. It's convenient, but it's not consistent.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

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    re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Why? Part of being pro-choice is that the woman gets to decide the fate of the ZEF. If the woman decided that she did indeed want to have that child then by default it is a child with full rights. That is where alot of anti-abortionists get confused with the whole "pro-choice" ideology. You might have a case with those that are pro-abortion but I'm not really sure as I am not pro-abortion and don't know thier side as well.
    My point is that circumstances should not allow one individual, the female in the equation, to determine whether or not another is a person. Under the law, either it is a person or it isn't - it shouldn't be just because this time the woman wants it to be a person but next time maybe she won't.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

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    re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    I think this is rather hypocritical.

    Both parents should have equal legal right to a baby. When a woman kills a man's baby without his consent, it's just "tough titties, bro", but when a guy does it, it's murder.

    He should definitely be charged with like poisoning or assault or whatever, but calling it murder is rather ridiculous if we're not going to call any actions from a woman murder.
    Isn't there something like equal protection under the law and/or a ban on discrimination by virtue of gender? As you say, the woman here has free reign to commit murder while the man has none.

    In my view, the charge is trumped up by the prosecutor - I think the same one as in the Trevon Martin case.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

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    re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    My point is that circumstances should not allow one individual, the female in the equation, to determine whether or not another is a person. Under the law, either it is a person or it isn't - it shouldn't be just because this time the woman wants it to be a person but next time maybe she won't.
    You are simplifying things way too much. Life is not black and white and neither should the law be. If it was then anyone killing another in self defense should automatically be charged and convicted with murder. Our troops on the front line should be charged and convicted of murder, Rights should be totally unregulated etc etc.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

    My mind and my heart are saying I'm in my twenties. My body is pointing at my mind and heart and laughing its ass off. ~ Kal'Stang

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