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Thread: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

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    re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Yes, and you were using the term "an unborn child" in your quote. Why use the term anywhere if you don't believe it?
    IOW, you don't understand what the quotes mean
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    Why is it a mistake to say it's "his baby" while it's growing inside her womb? Unless, of course, there is a question of paternity, I don't see the issue.
    It can't be his baby while it's part of her body. Even leaving aside the issue of her bodily autonomy, he's incapable of acting toward that child in any paternal capacity until after it is born.

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    re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Or why should a man have to pay child support for a baby he didn't want? It seems that the woman has all the power in the decision making process so she should also, following that logic, be the one to pay for the child as well.
    The man does have a choice. He can choose to keep his pants zipped. After the spermatozoa have fled the flesh flute it's out of his hands, so to speak.

    "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." --HL Mencken

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    re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    Yeah, as to the matter of choice that's true. But the charge isn't "denial of choice" it's murder. The whole pro-abortion rationale is based in great part on the idea that the fetus isn't a human being. That's their rationale. So it seems they are willing to throw that out the window whenever it's convenient.
    Nope

    Unborn Victims of Violence Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    the punishment for that separate offense is the same as the punishment provided under Federal law for that conduct had that injury or death occurred to the unborn child’s mother
    Murder is a charge under United States Code: Title 18, Chapter 1 (Crimes), §1111

    In this case, they are being charged under United States Code: Title 18, Chapter 1 (Crimes), §1841

    Not the same
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Nope

    Unborn Victims of Violence Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



    Murder is a charge under United States Code: Title 18, Chapter 1 (Crimes), §1111

    In this case, they are being charged under United States Code: Title 18, Chapter 1 (Crimes), §1841

    Not the same
    You've merely shown that the contradiction has been codified in federal law. What is the rationale of that law if not that the fetus is human?

    "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." --HL Mencken

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    re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    You've merely shown that the contradiction has been codified in federal law. What is the rationale of that law if not that the fetus is human?
    The laws allowing abortion have nothing to do with the definition of "human"

    And the rationale is that the perp denied the mother the right to choose whether to have an abortion, or birth a child.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    The laws allowing abortion have nothing to do with the definition of "human"
    Roe v Wade recognizes no rights for early term fetuses, which is to define them as not human.

    And the rationale is that the perp denied the mother the right to choose whether to have an abortion, or birth a child.
    That's not murder.

    "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." --HL Mencken

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    re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    Roe v Wade recognizes no rights for early term fetuses, which is to define them as not human.
    No, it defines them as not a person


    That's not murder.
    No, it's not.

    But you can be charged with murder under United States Code: Title 18, Chapter 1 (Crimes), §1841, which is not the same as United States Code: Title 18, Chapter 1 (Crimes), §1111
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    No, it defines them as not a person
    A distinction without a difference.

    No, it's not.

    But you can be charged with murder under United States Code: Title 18, Chapter 1 (Crimes), §1841, which is not the same as United States Code: Title 18, Chapter 1 (Crimes), §1111
    And again, there is no purpose for this law except to exact justice for murder -- the killing of a human being.

    "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." --HL Mencken

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    re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Nope

    Unborn Victims of Violence Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



    Murder is a charge under United States Code: Title 18, Chapter 1 (Crimes), §1111

    In this case, they are being charged under United States Code: Title 18, Chapter 1 (Crimes), §1841

    Not the same
    That law codifies the act as a murder under section 1111.

    1184, Subsection 2c specifically reference intent to kill an unborn, which if proven, shall be punished under section 1111 for "intentionally killing a human being".

    Now this is where it gets silly. In order for section 1841 to actually apply, you would have to have violated one of the other sections of the law, of which 1111 is one of these. But he didn't murder the woman, he assulted her, and I don't think a federal charge of assault can be applied. Most federal charges are very narrow in their application.

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