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Thread: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

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    re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    From my perspective, the real complication is that the guy actually performed an illegal abortion. He used the medication that doctors use when inducing labor within the first 9 weeks of pregnancy to abort the child.
    Assault and unlicensed abortion, sure. Probably the proper charges here.
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    re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Don't you understand what it means when a poster puts a phrase in quotes? Yeesh!!
    Yes, and you were using the term "an unborn child" in your quote. Why use the term anywhere if you don't believe it?

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    re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    If you had been this honest from the start, maybe more people would have humoured your initial premise.
    Sorry, you'll have to show me where in this thread I've been anything but honest with my views.
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    re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    Sorry, you'll have to show me where in this thread I've been anything but honest with my views.
    First post.
    Your illogical conclusion that because something may "not exist" to those who advocate for choice, forcing somebody to have an abortion does not infringe on a) their understanding of where starts b) the choice they've already made etc.
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    re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    First post.
    Your illogical conclusion that because something may "not exist" to those who advocate for choice, forcing somebody to have an abortion does not infringe on a) their understanding of where starts b) the choice they've already made etc.
    Got an English translation for that - and one that specifically references my words, not your interpretation of my words?
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    re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    From your article



    Notice how even the girls lawyer is not arguing that the fetus had any rights. Instead, he is arguing that the girl was deprived of her right to choose whether or not to have a child.

    No matter how hard you try to twist the facts, the truth is that this case is supported by the pro-choice philosophy.
    Yeah, as to the matter of choice that's true. But the charge isn't "denial of choice" it's murder. The whole pro-abortion rationale is based in great part on the idea that the fetus isn't a human being. That's their rationale. So it seems they are willing to throw that out the window whenever it's convenient.

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    re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    per how the LAW is written the guy CAN be CHARGED with murder

    I actually like how this sub-law is written because it totally violates the womans rights, risked her life and endangered her. Giving her that pill against her will should be at least attempted murder on her.
    but either way from my understanding its uncommon that the murder charges stick but i have no issue with it

    as for the number of times i read posters say "pro-life" opinion/definition/views etc i laughed every time because if honest posters know anything, its blanket statements like that are always complete failures.

    i have said many times that all those terms are meaningless to the actual abortion debate but i have argued what they mean when people lie about them or dont understand them.
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    re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    Yeah, as to the matter of choice that's true. But the charge isn't "denial of choice" it's murder. The whole pro-abortion rationale is based in great part on the idea that the fetus isn't a human being. That's their rationale. So it seems they are willing to throw that out the window whenever it's convenient.
    I agree with what you're saying, but it's not likely a pro-choice decision to charge this man with murder - it's likely comes from pro-life sympathies, those of the pregnant woman and those of the prosecutor. It's why I asked for pro-choicers to comment to see if they agree with the charge or are troubled by it.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

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    re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    The threshold question is Are there one or two victims here? 1) Mother and 2) Child.

    1) Mother: Certainly as an adult human being, there has been a battery upon the mother and depending on the relevant statutes, it could be aggravated battery or mayhem, plus all other related criminal and civil charges.

    2) Child: Was there a living child killed? This is the central issue. The ramifications of concluding that a live baby was killed will be extensive and strike at the moving mechanism of Roe v Wade. Are the abortionists serious in arguing that an unborn fetus is not a baby or was that conclusion a political correctness for convenience sake and to get the female vote?

    Think of the ramifications of concluding a living baby was killed. How many millions of living babies have then been killed by their own mothers since Roe v Wade?

    Rightly or wrongly, it's difficult to believe that a court would take a step that large.
    Last edited by Ray410; 05-16-13 at 08:28 PM.

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    re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    I agree with what you're saying, but it's not likely a pro-choice decision to charge this man with murder - it's likely comes from pro-life sympathies, those of the pregnant woman and those of the prosecutor. It's why I asked for pro-choicers to comment to see if they agree with the charge or are troubled by it.
    It seems to me that pro choice people are at loggerheads with themselves if they support these charges, particularly the charge of murder. I'm all for charging the guy with whatever is appropriate for the act of sneeking the woman a foreign substance that has an undesired effect, but murder can't be sustained, it seems to me, not with Roe v Wade, which strongly implies that the fetus is not a human being in the early stages of pregnancy, i.e., there is a human there that the state my enact laws to protect later but not earlier.

    "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." --HL Mencken

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