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Thread: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

  1. #651
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    Re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    Good point, so let me bring up the Bible itself.
    I am not near the bible quoter you are, not a biblical scholar and not a follower, but I do have some questions about your interpretations.

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    1) Genesis, chapter 2:

    "7And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. "

    As you can see, Adam did not become a person until he took his first breath.
    Yeah? So? According to this version of the story, Adam also was not in the womb, not developing as a child in untero would, was only dust from the ground previously while the baby in the womb is already provably alive and growing [ dead cells not have a penchant for replication like live cells do, right?]. Have any bible quotes on something more applicable, maybe like the creation and/or birth of Cain or Able? I mean, you gotta admit, apples [ no pun intended ] and oranges here...

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    But what about fetuses themselves? The Bible has a lot to say on that question also:

    From Exodus, Chapter 21:

    22 If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her , and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman' husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine .

    That's right. It is not murder. The man who caused the fetus to die can be sued, and forced to pay money to the the woman's husband. But many today who profess to be Christians attempt to invent new meanings which never existed in the Bible at all.
    It does not say its not murder, also does not say it is...but for you to pronounce based on this sentence is a little bit of a reach, maybe?

    And the, "he shall be surely punished"...correct me if I am wrong but the death penalty is still considered a punishment, correct? So its still in the quiver of potential punishments that probably could then, and certainly can currently, be applied by the courts, surely.

    then...
    ..."according as the woman's husband will lay upon him"... don't know what that means to you, but if I were a husband and you had just killed my child residing in my beloved wife's womb, I might, as according to me, want you punished as a murderer.

    finally...
    "and he shall pay as the judges determine"... and payment could very well be with his life...if that is what the judges so determine. You certainly cannot disprove that just from the quotes you have throw up here... or maybe it might be better of me to request that you prove them, any of them...

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    What does the Bible say about them? It's right here:

    From Revelations, Chapter 22:

    18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
    Okay.

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    God hates hypocrites, and will punish them severely.
    Well, we are not certain you are guilty of hypocrisy... yet... we will just have to wait and we shall see...

  2. #652
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    Re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    Are you calling the Bible stupid?
    No, I am pointing out if the question concerns proper translation and historical context of a term, citing the translated text under question offers absolutely no insight.

    rather straight forward, actually

  3. #653
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    Re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrabaholic View Post
    Choosing to have sex is not choosing to get knocked up. It can be said that the woman is taking the risk but that in no way shape or form means she wants to get pregnant or that she is obligated to gestate and give birth. She has the option to abort.
    When you get in a car you don't choose to get in an accident... happens... and those that cause the accident are responsible, not someone sitting at home in front of their TV who is involved in no way shape or form.

    And the ONLY reason that she currently is not obligated, that she has this heinous option to abort, is because of a bad decision in the case of Roe... and when Roe is overturned, guess what, she will be obligated... and so females might better make better decisions about just who these guys are they opening their legs, often way too casually, to in the future... and that would certainly be a pure positive for any society.

  4. #654
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    Re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaugingcatenate View Post
    Folks, be my guest....Just go back to post #450 of this thread, as it is even hard for me to believe anyone would stoop to such blatant dissembling after another has had the patience to, over and over, so painstakingly show them the exact errors of their ways. But go back, read that post for just a smidgen of the non-stop misstatements, the spinning of prevarications as if they were the solid truth, the incessant factual inaccuracies, the lost in space perspectives...so its easy enough to just go back to that post. If you are up for a little fun, especially a psychology major at university perhaps, try to follow the labyrinth of twists and turns of the myriad deficiencies of judgement, the common senselessness, the utter absence of an anchor of sufficient weight to keep one moored in reality. Actually rather comical, but at the same time troubling, as it is so persistent.

    Somewhat surprised I am still in such good humor about it all, but I guess most of us can take solace and truthfully say, that there, but for the grace of god, go I. If you should, by chance, go back to all the other posts, do not take offense at his name calling, the "delusional", "nut bagger" or "party of stupid" stuff, know that those who are without proper arguments often feel so frustrated that they feel they must strike back, must resort to this manner of trying to inflict some damage, any damage, d this is the only way left to them.
    Repeating (which is all you ever do) "SCOTUS is not the constitution" is of no relevance. The constitution itself grants SCOTUS the power of judicial review, by which it has the authority to determine the meaning of the constitution and how it can (and cannot) be applied. Your attempt to portray yourself as desirous of a govt that adheres to the constitution is betrayed by the ease with which you ignore Art III.

    WRT UVVA, it matters not what it says about homo sapiens. The constitution only protects "persons" and ZEF's are not persons

    SCOTUS does not need to be a legislative body in order to shape the law. It has all judicial powers, which includes the authority to determine the meaning and intent of the constitution.

    The Debates in the Several State Conventions on the Adoption of the Federal ... - Jonathan Elliot, James Madison - Google Books

    This Constitution defines the extent of the powers of the general government If the general legislature should at any time overleap their limits the judicial department is a constitutional check If the United States go beyond their powers if they make a law which the Constitution does not authorize it is void and the judicial power the national judges who to secure their impartiality are to be made independent will declare it to be void On the other hand if the states go beyond their limits if they make a law which is a usurpation upon the general government the law is void and upright independent judges will declare it to be so
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  5. #655
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    Re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrabaholic View Post
    Aborting IS taking responsibility. Birthing a child you cannot or will not raise properly or pawning it off on others to raise is NOT responsible, IMO.

    The man can have a choice when it's HIS body being put at risk by the pregnancy.

    The baybee can have a choice when it is capable of making and articulating one.
    Giving a chance to another female who does not have the good luck of being fertile, giving this life, already living, an opportunity to keep living is not only RESPONSIBLE, it is the only right thing to do. It is absolutely IRRESPONSIBLE, in most, if not every single one, of the the cases to just kill a baby... you can try to distance yourself, you can ignore what you are doing, possibly, the rest of us of good moral conscience simply do not have that same option.

    If men are allowed no choice whatsoever in the matter, are you saying women accept all the responsibility? Sounds like it.

    We speak for the unborn children against those who would murder them... they are far more alive and viable than are your arguments... now there just might be a plausible case for an abortion.

  6. #656
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    Re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaugingcatenate View Post
    When you get in a car you don't choose to get in an accident... happens... and those that cause the accident are responsible, not someone sitting at home in front of their TV who is involved in no way shape or form.

    And the ONLY reason that she currently is not obligated, that she has this heinous option to abort, is because of a bad decision in the case of Roe... and when Roe is overturned, guess what, she will be obligated... and so females might better make better decisions about just who these guys are they opening their legs, often way too casually, to in the future... and that would certainly be a pure positive for any society.
    When someone is responsible for causing an accident, they are responsible to pay damages to those harmed

    When a woman is responsible for causing a pregnancy, no other person harmed.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  7. #657
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    Re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Repeating (which is all you ever do) "SCOTUS is not the constitution" is of no relevance. The constitution itself grants SCOTUS the power of judicial review, by which it has the authority to determine the meaning of the constitution and how it can (and cannot) be applied. Your attempt to portray yourself as desirous of a govt that adheres to the constitution is betrayed by the ease with which you ignore Art III.

    WRT UVVA, it matters not what it says about homo sapiens. The constitution only protects "persons" and ZEF's are not persons

    SCOTUS does not need to be a legislative body in order to shape the law. It has all judicial powers, which includes the authority to determine the meaning and intent of the constitution.

    The Debates in the Several State Conventions on the Adoption of the Federal ... - Jonathan Elliot, James Madison - Google Books
    Ha ha ha, too funny....It is hardly all I ever do, but it is something I do have to keep doing, as you keep avoiding acceptance of reality, this one in particular. SCOTUS, THE SUPREME COURT OF THE UNITED STATES, IS NOT NOW AND NEVER WILL BE THE CONSTITUTION. SCOTUS can ONLY make decisions about the Constitutionality of a current law and judge its application, they are simply not allowed to create law... that son, is what the Constitution, as quoted earlier, states. Please quote from Article III where, as you say its says, that the judicial branch create...or even shape... law. I have asked this before... numerous times. Your next post will say you have already proven that it does... there is that difficulty dealing with reality thing again, inconveniently raising its ugly head, huh? Just cannot accept that you are dead wrong, eh? Accept it, move on, learn something.

    So I actually use the Constitution, you do not, whats new? Nothing. Absolutely nothing.

    As to relevance? The one, the Constitution, is a written document, which are the rules by which we are governed. Rules for governing, not absolutely permanent rules, but ones that are pretty well set, that can only be amended in a couple of ways...that way the game is fair, the rules known and in continuance. If not amended, whatever law, or action, is required to be within the parameters of that written framework of governing.

    Now the SUPREME COURT OF THE UNITED STATES are 9 living persons [ who were once, themselves, children in utero ] who are constantly growing, changing, getting smarter or less smart, constantly aging and will one day no longer be with us, while the Constitution lives on, changing very little with age... so not even close to being similar as the Constitution does not have to follow the Court, the Court, and this is absolutely mandatory, must follow the Constitution. That you cannot fathom the difference is comical.

    Regarding the Unborn Victims of Violence Act, which you say is about mothers, what a laugh again, as you are now avoiding that you adamantly stated the UVVA was about crimes towards a mother. You also have not answered the question, are you or are you not a member of the species homo sapiens? Should not be that difficult of a question, altho some might question the answer.

    They, the Supreme Court, cannot shape [ that would be changing] the Constitution and thus the laws, they can do, are allowed to do, what the current justices have done in the recent, Roberts, Court and that is to strike down a law and make recommendations, should they care to, on what might be needed to make the law Constitutional. They have no right to just make up a new law of the land.

    And your google books link is not to the actual Constitution, its to a book, The Debates in the Several State Conventions on the Adoption of the Federal Constitution. This book is NOT the Constitution, as noted by its title, it was written after the Constitution was drafted and describes the debates about and leading to ultimate ratification. Please show me in the actual Constitution where it gives the Supreme Court the power of judicial review.

    Marbury vs Madison established the power of judicial review... the power of judicial review is nowhere in the Constitution, just like separation of Church and State is nowhere in the Constitution. Nobody that I know of, especially those knowledgeable on the subject, disputes this FACT. Anybody else having a problem seeing this?

  8. #658
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    Re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    When someone is responsible for causing an accident, they are responsible to pay damages to those harmed

    When a woman is responsible for causing a pregnancy, no other person harmed.
    So she, in a undeniably very deliberate and premeditated manner, hires a hit man or hit woman [ an abortion "doctor" ] to kill her baby.

    Sure, she certainly should be put on trial for murder. Agreed, that is the way it should be, the way it will be.

    You may go back to sleep now...

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    Re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaugingcatenate View Post
    Ha ha ha, too funny....It is hardly all I ever do, but it is something I do have to keep doing, as you keep avoiding acceptance of reality, this one in particular. SCOTUS, THE SUPREME COURT OF THE UNITED STATES, IS NOT NOW AND NEVER WILL BE THE CONSTITUTION. SCOTUS can ONLY make decisions about the Constitutionality of a current law and judge its application
    And SCOTUS determined that the govt's power to protect rights did not apply to the unborn.

    The rests of your post is just more of you repeating your nonsensical claims as if they were fact.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  10. #660
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    Re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaugingcatenate View Post
    So she, in a undeniably very deliberate and premeditated manner, hires a hit man or hit woman [ an abortion "doctor" ] to kill her baby.

    Sure, she certainly should be put on trial for murder. Agreed, that is the way it should be, the way it will be.

    You may go back to sleep now...
    Murder is illegal. Abortion is not.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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