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Thread: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

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    Re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    As stated previously, if, as most pro-choice people believe - as I believe, because I'm pro-choice - that women control their own bodies, what goes in and what comes out, then except for the exceptions where a woman is raped or she is still an under aged child, etc., you have to accept that no woman gets pregnant unless she allows herself to get pregnant. If she's not forced to have unprotected sex, she makes a choice - there's that choice thingy again - a choice to engage in an activity that has the potential to leave her pregnant. She makes that choice - or, if you'd prefer, she takes that gamble and sometimes she wins, sometimes she loses.
    Choosing to have sex is not choosing to get knocked up. It can be said that the woman is taking the risk but that in no way shape or form means she wants to get pregnant or that she is obligated to gestate and give birth. She has the option to abort.

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    Re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    No, I don't know the numbers - I'm not sure they're available. Considering the trends and considering that nothing so drastic has happened in society in the past 5 years, I'm not prepared to bet at all that the 1.2 million number has dropped "dramatically" and I can't see any evidence that would lead you to the conclusion. I will say, however, that I sure hope you're right.
    After much searching I found the stats for 2009 ( I wish I could find more recent stats) and the abortion numbers were down from 2008 by 5 percent.


    Description of System: Each year, CDC requests abortion data from the central health agencies of 52 reporting areas (the 50 states, the District of Columbia, and New York City). The reporting areas provide this information voluntarily. For 2009, data were received from 48 reporting areas. For the purpose of trend analysis, abortion data were evaluated from the 45 areas that reported data every year during 2000–2009. Census and natality data, respectively, were used to calculated abortion rates (number of abortions per 1,000 women) and ratios (number of abortions per 1,000 live births).

    Results: A total of 784,507 abortions were reported to CDC for 2009.

    Of these abortions, 772,630 (98.5%) were from the 45 reporting areas that provided data every year during 2000–2009.

    Compared with 2008, the total number and rate of reported abortions for 2009 decreased 5%,representing the largest single year decrease for the entire period of analysis. The abortion ratio decreased 2%.

    From 2000 to 2009, the total number, rate, and ratio of reported abortions decreased 6%, 7%, and 8%, respectively, to the lowest levels for 2000–2009.
    Abortion Surveillance — United States, 2009
    When it comes to matters of reproduce health, Politicians and the religious dogma of another faith should never interfere with religious liberty of an individual or her faith.

  3. #633
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    Re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaugingcatenate View Post
    At the same time, when do pro abortion women ever take responsibility for creating a life, a life they have no right to take away? How often is it seen that pro abortion women, in 99% of the cases wherein they consensually agree to an act that is intended to lead to pregnancy [ that is its main purpose, to promote the survival of the species ], take the responsibility for that action, along with their partner? And how many women are willing, if indeed the responsibility is to be equal, to give men just as much right to make the ultimate decision to choose life... or do you believe that its solely the woman's choice? Because that is the common liberal meme, woman's choice...what about all the equality? What about man's choice? What about partner's choice...together... and how about the baby's choice? I mean your way is having it both ways, this woman's choice only and women never having to take actual responsibility for her own actions.
    Aborting IS taking responsibility. Birthing a child you cannot or will not raise properly or pawning it off on others to raise is NOT responsible, IMO.

    The man can have a choice when it's HIS body being put at risk by the pregnancy.

    The baybee can have a choice when it is capable of making and articulating one.

  4. #634
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    Re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    why would you assume they have fallen, especially dramatically?
    From 2008 to 2009 abortion rates fell 5 percent.
    I think since more and more women of childbearing years are using Long term BC methods the rates have dropped and will drop even more.
    When it comes to matters of reproduce health, Politicians and the religious dogma of another faith should never interfere with religious liberty of an individual or her faith.

  5. #635
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    Re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrabaholic View Post
    Why do you feel the need to be so nasty? Minnie said nothing to deserve that.
    Who is being nasty? Not me. i simply called someone out on their lies.


    Quote Originally Posted by Scrabaholic View Post
    Aborting IS taking responsibility. Birthing a child you cannot or will not raise properly or pawning it off on others to raise is NOT responsible, IMO.
    The idea of abortion being responsible is like making sure you destroy evidence of a crime you committed, hence "being a good citizen".
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrabaholic View Post
    The man can have a choice when it's HIS body being put at risk by the pregnancy.
    No, the man has to worry about 18-21 years of slavery/indentured servitude, no matter his protestation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrabaholic View Post
    The baybee can have a choice when it is capable of making and articulating one.
    When is a "baybee" capable of articulating a choice?

  6. #636
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    Re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaugingcatenate View Post
    Ever heard the phrase, "casting pearls before swine"?
    I want to thank you for demonstrating the inherently dishonest nature of the abortion banning argument, which can only make arguments by misportraying the meaning of words, just as they misunderstand the meaning of life and freedom

    The highlight of your post was the part where you describe ZEF's as a social group.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    Not to be crude, but it's convenient if you support abortion to find that the raw numbers of actual abortions don't matter. The fact still remains that abortions in the US have been consistently above 1.2 million per year. That, to me, is still a remarkably high number and one has to assume that abortion in 2013 is considered a form of birth control while when Roe v Wade was adjudicated it was considered a rare but necessary procedure in certain circumstances. To me, that's a very sad commentary on today's society and probably explains why support for abortion has been falling steadily and there is more support for limits on abortion at the state's level.
    Untrue

    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Here's a better chart.

    As anyone can see, support for abortion has remained fairly steady over decades

    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  9. #639
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    Re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrabaholic View Post
    Choosing to have sex is not choosing to get knocked up. It can be said that the woman is taking the risk but that in no way shape or form means she wants to get pregnant or that she is obligated to gestate and give birth. She has the option to abort.
    Sure she has the option to abort - no one is denying that - it's ludicrous, however, to say "that in no way shape or form means she wants to get pregnant" if she's foolish enough to have unprotected intercourse - that's as stupid as saying if I walk across a 12 lane highway with cars barrelling by, I in no way shape or form want to get hit so it's not my fault if I get hit. Take some effin responsibility.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

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    Re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    I want to thank you for demonstrating the inherently dishonest nature of the abortion banning argument, which can only make arguments by misportraying the meaning of words, just as they misunderstand the meaning of life and freedom

    The highlight of your post was the part where you describe ZEF's as a social group.
    What is immediately identifiable, upon conception one might say, when "debating" [ being the loosest,weakest construal of that concept] with you is, once we get beyond your tossing of one liner barbs, your sneers, your taunts, jeers, scorns and scoffs, you can never back up any, ANY, of your hypothetical deeply held and "reflected" thoughts with anything beyond the most cursory, shallow opinions. Once we get into the actual Constitution, your "only born persons" arguments fade then completely vanish, a dreamlike vaporization upon wakening, your flawed interpretation of what is so simply stated in the UVVA 2004 is so far off as to be comical, certainly recommending the use of a road map to get you back anywhere close to the destination, your understanding of what was actually the basis and what was said in R v W, even though you keep sending the google scholar document of the ruling, is just appallingly embarrassing [ even if not embarrassed, we end up embarrassed for you].

    I think what is most particularly apropos in response here is probably your own signature phrase, which does seem more in line with a deep reflection from a mirror in your own abode, so it must be close to home: "One can only be so intelligent, but stupidity knows no limits".

    I do, now, see where you are coming from.

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