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Thread: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

  1. #511
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    Re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Do you believe that anyone refutes the fact that engaging in intercourse carries the probability that a pregnancy could occur as a result of the act?

    I think that covers both your Mutual agreement, and Intent to promise wording you are using here....



    Oh I see, you really didn't want to discuss anything, but are more than willing to insult...Well, I guess I should have expected it, from you that is.
    His question was a genuine one. After all, the fact that many women have abortions should have clued you in to the fact that their having sex was not an agreement to not have an abortion.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Is the sex engaged in not consensual?
    :
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  3. #513
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    Re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    All you've done is show how pedantic you can be.
    Guess you showed me with that, huh? As a response to my comments... or even as a defense of your own perspective, that did not add a lot of an edificational nature, just not much scholarly umph behind your statement, wouldn't you agree?

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    Re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by minnie616 View Post
    According to the scientific community and long standing federal policy pregnancy begins with implantantion.


    The Implications of Defining When a Woman Is Pregnant
    While I appreciate your belief in the very small scientific community, they study science, they cannot and do not proclaim for me what I believe nor what the vast numbers of us believe to be closer to the real truth. They are drawing a line where they want to, that is not up to them... if we want, if we decide to draw it elsewhere as a society. We should all be working to change where the line is drawn for the betterment of mankind.

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    Re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by Viktyr Gehrig View Post
    And you accuse me of mental gymnastics. THAT IS NOT WHAT WORDS MEAN. The fact that something is a possibility does not mean that a person agrees to it, and does not confer any obligation whatsoever to perpetuate the situation.
    So, let me see, if a person gets into the driver's seat of a car, and knows by driving that there is a possibility of a wreck, but this same person who is driving doesn't explicitly and previously agree to this specific wreck that does, indeed, happen, then he or she is not responsible? Isn't that responsibility implied...implied that when you get into your car and drive it on the public roads there is that potentiality? The possibility you may run a red light accidentally, or heck maybe some even on purpose, [ isn't there the possibility that one might get pregnant, that one might accidentally, or heck maybe some even on purpose, create a baby ] and cause a wreck... but you are saying that since it was only a possibility, then the driver has no implied responsibility? Shouldn't someone let the defense lawyers in on this secret?

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    Re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    DNA is not a signature. It can be used to identify individuals, but it is not a form of consent, nor does it prove consent.

    And two people having sex with a pregnancy resulting does not form a contract either. Your comparing it to a contract is just really wacky and has no basis in the law. In addition, the father of a ZEF has no legal obligation to the ZEF. This is just another wacky idea.

    My wording is not unbecoming. It is realistic. It's a reasonable characterization of then nonsensical claims you've been making, such as how you believe that there is some legal obligation between the father and a ZEF. Calling it a delusion is 100% accurate.

    And you might well take your own advice and prove your own claims. So far, all you've done is make claims while providing nothing to support them besides the fact that you actually believe in your delusions.
    Totally agree on the fact that DNA does not prove consent, well...at least it doesn't in a good 1% of the cases [ that would be the average of 13,000 rapes and incests that occur out of the average 1 million 250 thousand abortions, planned killings, that occur every year in our country, the US of A. So, to be accurate, lets bump that up to .0104 . 50 million lives taken in this manner since Roe.

    98.96% [ basically 99 percent] of the times the sex was consensual leading up to an abortion. DNA is plenty sufficient to prove paternity…

    So, semantics, both knowing the bottom line…which = DNA is as good/ better than a signature. Of the 100% of the times abortion is bidden/entreated each and every year, 98.96% of the times this sex resulting in a pregnancy is just plain old consensual, as you know including willingness and/or, at minimum, ultimate agreement. We can quibble over the 1percenters later… okay okay, the 1.04%ers. 1% is statistically insignificant… yet should still be dealt with in good faith… and with dignity. That is a discussion worth having even though I leave open the door, but unless logically and morally convinced, will remain intellectually honest in a steadfast support of innocent yet voiceless unborn. It is just the right thing to do. Up to a limited point I can see the other side, but life is the superior right, especially in the 99% of the cases where nobody is forced. Totally unconcerned whether you agree or not, I only appeal to the logical in any event, ideologues generally cannot be swayed in the face of the rational, but the just and the logical can be... and the facts of the matter are there are consequences to actions... and one must accept one's own personal responsibilities...really does not matter one whit what sangha thinks...

    And, tell me...

    What, one should ask, besides a loved one, what is more valuable in life to you than your very own life…??

    And… to just summarily remove that opportunity from someone else...an innocent someone else paying for the bad decisions of others... and so that chance at the most precious thing you own you can simply take in total from another, without their consent? Don’t know about you, but would that not just be considered just toooooo cosmically cruel?

    Law has gotten away from good sense and we, the people, need take it back. Logic and justice should prevail in the law. To a much lesser degree emotion, much lesser. What you call wacky will change real quick to just how its done once we get Roe overturned. Just will be.

    Let me get this straight, you are saying the father of a child bears no responsibility? Now you talk about whacky…


    Hhhmmmm….
    Calling me delusional then adding the 100% accurate partjust classic, sangha… so we can all assume this statement is as factually accurate as all the rest of your 100% accurates have been, wow, what a hoot… thanks, made my day, whew…

    But such the watery justification for using name calling, while at the same time not even attempting high brow? Unsophisticated ad hominems? Having developed the appropriately abundant epidermal material over here, however, one usually need only consider the fountainhead from which the crudities sequentially flow.

    It is your duty to ask or question any claim I have made, so ask away. I have provided many sources and quoted documentation, including the Constitution, the D.O.I., the pertinent portions of UVVA 2004, the pertinent parts of the R v W decision, Merriam as well as other sources for the vocabulary we are using, blah blah blah, etc, etc…and my logic you have yet to even raise a dull spoon to….nor... lest we forget all your myriad factual inaccuracies previously strewn wildly about but nicely placed in the evidence locker of my previous comments.

    If you are just going to want to trade more verbal barbs... well, you'll continue to lose at that as well, soooo...
    Last edited by Gaugingcatenate; 05-27-13 at 10:29 PM.

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    Re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaugingcatenate View Post
    Guess you showed me with that, huh? As a response to my comments... or even as a defense of your own perspective, that did not add a lot of an edificational nature, just not much scholarly umph behind your statement, wouldn't you agree?
    "edificational" is not a word
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  8. #518
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    Re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaugingcatenate View Post
    While I appreciate your belief in the very small scientific community, they study science, they cannot and do not proclaim for me what I believe nor what the vast numbers of us believe to be closer to the real truth. They are drawing a line where they want to, that is not up to them... if we want, if we decide to draw it elsewhere as a society. We should all be working to change where the line is drawn for the betterment of mankind.
    How dare those scientists use facts to try and stop you from speaking for the vast hordes!!
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  9. #519
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    Re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaugingcatenate View Post
    So, let me see, if a person gets into the driver's seat of a car, and knows by driving that there is a possibility of a wreck, but this same person who is driving doesn't explicitly and previously agree to this specific wreck that does, indeed, happen, then he or she is not responsible? Isn't that responsibility implied...implied that when you get into your car and drive it on the public roads there is that potentiality? The possibility you may run a red light accidentally, or heck maybe some even on purpose, [ isn't there the possibility that one might get pregnant, that one might accidentally, or heck maybe some even on purpose, create a baby ] and cause a wreck... but you are saying that since it was only a possibility, then the driver has no implied responsibility? Shouldn't someone let the defense lawyers in on this secret?
    The driver did not consent to a contract that requires him to get into an accident.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  10. #520
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    Re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaugingcatenate View Post
    Totally agree on the fact that DNA does not prove consent, well...at least it doesn't in a good 1% of the cases [ that would be the average of 13,000 rapes and incests that occur out of the average 1 million 250 thousand abortions, planned killings, that occur every year in our country, the US of A. So, to be accurate, lets bump that up to .0104 . 50 million lives taken in this manner since Roe.

    98.96% [ basically 99 percent] of the times the sex was consensual leading up to an abortion. DNA is plenty sufficient to prove paternity…

    So, semantics, both knowing the bottom line…which = DNA is as good/ better than a signature. Of the 100% of the times abortion is bidden/entreated each and every year, 98.96% of the times this sex resulting in a pregnancy is just plain old consensual, as you know including willingness and/or, at minimum, ultimate agreement. We can quibble over the 1percenters later… okay okay, the 1.04%ers. 1% is statistically insignificant… yet should still be dealt with in good faith… and with dignity. That is a discussion worth having even though I leave open the door, but unless logically and morally convinced, will remain intellectually honest in a steadfast support of innocent yet voiceless unborn. It is just the right thing to do. Up to a limited point I can see the other side, but life is the superior right, especially in the 99% of the cases where nobody is forced. Totally unconcerned whether you agree or not, I only appeal to the logical in any event, ideologues generally cannot be swayed in the face of the rational, but the just and the logical can be... and the facts of the matter are there are consequences to actions... and one must accept one's own personal responsibilities...really does not matter one whit what sangha thinks...

    And, tell me...

    What, one should ask, besides a loved one, what is more valuable in life to you than your very own life…??

    And… to just summarily remove that opportunity from someone else...an innocent someone else paying for the bad decisions of others... and so that chance at the most precious thing you own you can simply take in total from another, without their consent? Don’t know about you, but would that not just be considered just toooooo cosmically cruel?

    Law has gotten away from good sense and we, the people, need take it back. Logic and justice should prevail in the law. To a much lesser degree emotion, much lesser. What you call wacky will change real quick to just how its done once we get Roe overturned. Just will be.

    Let me get this straight, you are saying the father of a child bears no responsibility? Now you talk about whacky…


    Hhhmmmm….
    Calling me delusional then adding the 100% accurate partjust classic, sangha… so we can all assume this statement is as factually accurate as all the rest of your 100% accurates have been, wow, what a hoot… thanks, made my day, whew…

    But such the watery justification for using name calling, while at the same time not even attempting high brow? Unsophisticated ad hominems? Having developed the appropriately abundant epidermal material over here, however, one usually need only consider the fountainhead from which the crudities sequentially flow.

    It is your duty to ask or question any claim I have made, so ask away. I have provided many sources and quoted documentation, including the Constitution, the D.O.I., the pertinent portions of UVVA 2004, the pertinent parts of the R v W decision, Merriam as well as other sources for the vocabulary we are using, blah blah blah, etc, etc…and my logic you have yet to even raise a dull spoon to….nor... lest we forget all your myriad factual inaccuracies previously strewn wildly about but nicely placed in the evidence locker of my previous comments.

    If you are just going to want to trade more verbal barbs... well, you'll continue to lose at that as well, soooo...
    OK, please show me where the constitution says that a ZEF is a person.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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