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Thread: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

  1. #491
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    Re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by minnie616 View Post
    The Z in ZEF just stands for zygote which is a fertilized egg.
    Almost two thirds of all zygotes either pass through the body without implanting or self abort within the first week implantation.
    Some pro life people think pregnancy begins when an egg is fertilized but pregnancy does not begin until implantion occurs.
    Pregnancy does start when the female egg is fertilized with the male sperm...the pregnancy continues with implantation...

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    Re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by minnie616 View Post
    Bill Baird, founder of the nation's first abortion referral center, wrote in his 1993 article
    "The Politics of God, Government, and Sex: a Thrity-One-Year Crusade"
    in the Saint Louis University Public Law Review:



    1993 -Bill Baird
    I am sure this all makes a lot of sense to you...but it is mostly rhetorical silliness from this Billy Baird guy.

    First of all, just because it has not been done in the past does not mean that this omission of not being considered human, a person, cannot be rectified in the future. The 13th and 14th Amendments did just that, for example.

    No pregnant woman, and her child, counts as 2 in the census, but when a pregnant woman is killed it IS considered a double homicide.

    Birth is pretty big, no doubt... just like being 18 is big in being an adult... do we give out pre-adult certifications as well? No.

    Not that we generally like to think of it this way, but, living people are pre-dead, are they not...? I mean, that seems logical enough to me. Its just the reality.

    And I would more say acorns aren't people and embryos are not oak trees, but like an oak seedling is not an acorn any longer and yet is not an adult oak tree as it is not yet relying on photosynthesis to gain its energy, an embryo is one in several stages in the development of all human persons.

  3. #493
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    Re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by vendur View Post
    Beggars can't be choosers. They were lawyers, after all. Look at this recent dumb ass roberts, who didn't even rule on the constitutional merits of Obamacare, he ruled in fear "they" would think "his court" was a bit too kangeroo-ish.

    luckily he is a lifetime appointee, lucky for him at least, and he can say such stupid **** without being thrown out on his ear, which is what he deserved.
    The fact remains that they weren't 'leftys' as you claim they were.

  4. #494
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    Re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaugingcatenate View Post
    Despite your side's whining about it, there is no slavery here, unless you consider a contract you willingly, voluntarily agree to up front as being slavery.
    I already debunked this argument. There is no basis in contract law for anything like what you are describing.

  5. #495
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    Re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaugingcatenate View Post
    DNA is much better than a signature, signatures can be forged...DNA is almost as good as a fingerprint.

    Secondly, I made no statements solely about sex, I did about sex and a resulting pregnancy. One does not determine paternity from sex only, one determines paternity with sex and pregnancy. This would establish a legal relationship between a father and his child...legal obligations that are enforceable. Call it what you will... i have no particular affinity for the word "contract", but it does convey the idea of the legal obligations that are recognized.

    You are aware, all this name calling [ "delusional", "tin foil hats", "nut baggers", the GOP being the "party of the stupid"], is presenting an unbecoming and, to some, what might be considered a rather immature image... this is debate, remember. Prove your points, let the folks decide. Actually, when my opponents start doing that, rather than get upset, I just understand it is, perhaps, their most face saving way of conceding they really have no further argument, that they are admitting defeat.
    DNA is not a signature. It can be used to identify individuals, but it is not a form of consent, nor does it prove consent.

    And two people having sex with a pregnancy resulting does not form a contract either. Your comparing it to a contract is just really wacky and has no basis in the law. In addition, the father of a ZEF has no legal obligation to the ZEF. This is just another wacky idea.

    My wording is not unbecoming. It is realistic. It's a reasonable characterization of then nonsensical claims you've been making, such as how you believe that there is some legal obligation between the father and a ZEF. Calling it a delusion is 100% accurate.

    And you might well take your own advice and prove your own claims. So far, all you've done is make claims while providing nothing to support them besides the fact that you actually believe in your delusions.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  6. #496
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    Re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaugingcatenate View Post
    Gosh, this is almost painful for me to have to do... but let us just test you to see if abortion is 100% legal.

    Is partial birth abortion legal?

    Let me remind you of this:

    Partial-Birth Abortion Ban Act of 2003 (Pub.L. 108105, 117 Stat. 1201, enacted November 5, 2003, 18 U.S.C. 1531,[1] PBA Ban) is a US law prohibiting a form of late-term abortion that the Act calls "partial-birth abortion". Under the Partial Birth Abortion Ban Act, "Any physician who, in or affecting interstate or foreign commerce, knowingly performs a partial-birth abortion and thereby kills a human fetus shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both." In 2007 its constitutionality was upheld by SCOTUS in the case of Gonzales v. Carhart.
    All you've done is show how pedantic you can be.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  7. #497
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    Re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaugingcatenate View Post
    First of all, just because it has not been done in the past does not mean that this omission of not being considered human, a person, cannot be rectified in the future. The 13th and 14th Amendments did just that, for example.
    Your insistence on arguing about what may happen in the future is the weakest and most cowardly tactic one can use in a discussion as it is nothing more than a ploy to avoid debate, used by those who lack an argument with a factual basis

    One could just as easily say that., in the future, abortions will be allowed at any time (including post-birth), by any person (including at-home abortions performed by the mother herself) and be completely paid for by the govt. Your visions of the future are nothing more than fantasy, and are not in any way an "argument" fit for debate.

    Let us know when you want to move out of the realm of fantasy, and engage in some actual debate
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  8. #498
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    Re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Just a question for sangha....Are you in favor of late term abortion? Or even "post birth"?
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    Re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by Viktyr Gehrig View Post
    I already debunked this argument. There is no basis in contract law for anything like what you are describing.
    Well, I have hardly read everything you have ever written, no disrespect intended. Why don't you reference your "debunking" so I can have a little look see myself, not that I don't trust you... or that I do trust you. I just like to measure things myself, to verify. How does paternity work in your estimation? No legal obligation? You only have responsibility for the child if you signed something agreeing to it beforehand, is that how paternity law goes? Men are off the hook if they don't have a formal contract, is that it?

    Wow...Methinks someone is much mistaken...

  10. #500
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    Re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaugingcatenate View Post
    Well, I have hardly read everything you have ever written, no disrespect intended. Why don't you reference your "debunking" so I can have a little look see myself, not that I don't trust you... or that I do trust you. I just like to measure things myself, to verify. How does paternity work in your estimation? No legal obligation? You only have responsibility for the child if you signed something agreeing to it beforehand, is that how paternity law goes? Men are off the hook if they don't have a formal contract, is that it?

    Wow...Methinks someone is much mistaken...

    Seems to me, that legally, Sexual relations would fall under this rule....

    'Implied Contracts Although contracts that are implied in fact and contracts implied in law are both called implied contracts, a true implied contract consists of obligations arising from a mutual agreement and intent to promise, which have not been expressed in words...'

    implied contracts legal definition of implied contracts. implied contracts synonyms by the Free Online Law Dictionary.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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