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Thread: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

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    Re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by DiAnna View Post
    WTF is it that every thread that even mentions a fetus will turn into an insult-ladened abortion debate? A man assaulted a woman by giving her a dangerous drug which had an abortive affect on her fetus, without her knowledge and permission. She wanted that child. It was her right to choose to have that child. Someone assaulted her and took that right away.

    To me, the charge should be first degree assault with special circumstances. Why wasn't that the charge? Was there a political or ideological strategy in overreaching with a murder charge? That should have been the focus of an honest debate. Instead, it turns into the DP Abortion Forum, part deux. Predictable, disheartening, and incredibly annoying.
    It had been discussed earlier and much of it involved a father's rights, as well as a mother's rights, and some form of assault was also the general consensus as to what the charges should be. Since then the rights and wrongs of abortion has taken over, as is inevitable.

    But if you go to earlier posts some of them might be worthy of comment.

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    Re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrabaholic View Post
    Five of the seven judges ruling in favour were appointed by Republican presidents.
    Beggars can't be choosers. They were lawyers, after all. Look at this recent dumb ass roberts, who didn't even rule on the constitutional merits of Obamacare, he ruled in fear "they" would think "his court" was a bit too kangeroo-ish.

    luckily he is a lifetime appointee, lucky for him at least, and he can say such stupid **** without being thrown out on his ear, which is what he deserved.

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    Re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    I can see that you are unwilling to face the fact that nothing in the UVVA, or any of the state laws which protect the unborn, describe a ZEF as a "person", nor can they overrule the constitution. No matter when "life begins", a ZE does not become a person until it is born
    For someone beaten on all angles, with facts, with logic, with more facts, with facts from your own cases [ i.e., Roe v Wade ] provided, with facts from their own laws proffered [UVVA 2004] proven so far off on knowledge of our Constitution, with so so many of your proven factual inaccuracies littered all along the way like a garbage truck that lost its lid throwing trash in all directions while hauling this garbage down the internet interstate... you sure take a tiny modicum of truth and mostly illogical prevarication and throw it out there as if victorious...

    I will give you props on a Clintonian approach to being proven wrong...

    And the morally deprived aspect of this declaration of victory...simply deplorable...

    PS I note with a wry chuckle how you are now dropping the F on ZEF... that will not quite cover it, sorry to have to inform...but it was funny.

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    Re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaugingcatenate View Post

    PS I note with a wry chuckle how you are now dropping the F on ZEF... that will not quite cover it, sorry to have to inform...but it was funny.
    The Z in ZEF just stands for zygote which is a fertilized egg.
    Almost two thirds of all zygotes either pass through the body without implanting or self abort within the first week implantation.
    Some pro life people think pregnancy begins when an egg is fertilized but pregnancy does not begin until implantion occurs.
    When it comes to matters of reproduce health, Politicians and the religious dogma of another faith should never interfere with religious liberty of an individual or her faith.

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    Re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Bill Baird, founder of the nation's first abortion referral center, wrote in his 1993 article
    "The Politics of God, Government, and Sex: a Thrity-One-Year Crusade"
    in the Saint Louis University Public Law Review:

    "Restore personhood? This is the typical false propaganda that unthinking people accept.
    An embryo has never been a person by state law....
    No pregnant woman counts as two people in a census.
    No one is given a conception certificate rather than a birth certificate....
    [The] rhetoric of 'pre-born children' makes as much sense as living people are 'pre-dead.'
    Acorns aren't oak trees; embryos aren't people."
    1993 -Bill Baird
    When it comes to matters of reproduce health, Politicians and the religious dogma of another faith should never interfere with religious liberty of an individual or her faith.

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    Re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by minnie616 View Post
    The murder charge under UVVA has nothing to do personhood , and is not conflict with the woman's right to privacy regarding abortion.
    I would suggest that that is your interpretation....Doesn't make it fact. In fact the law has language in it directly opposing this view, but I am not a lawyer, and it would have to be determined through the court system....Do you know if challenges have been brought over this law? If so, what is the current status in its swim up the stream toward the SC?

    The UVVA would never have been passed if the law did not specify that that a woman could still have an abortion within the parameters of Roe vs Wade.
    Irrelevant. The UVVA passed AFTER Roe No? So unless that law has been settled by the SCOTUS as unconstitutional then there is a real dichotomy in the laws concerning this question of person hood in utereo no?

    You don't get to have your cake and eat it too.

    The right to privacy precedent regarding womans reproductive privacy rights was set 8 years before Roe vs Wade was passed and the right to privacy regarding abortion has been reaffirmed in the SC a few times since then.

    The right to privacy is here to stay.
    So, is it that the SCOTUS never can make a mistake, and reverse itself, or is it only selective in what you think should be the case? For instance, Do you also believe that the ruling on Dred Scott is still in force? Or was that overturned by the SCOTUS from its original ruling in the matter?
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    I would suggest that that is your interpretation....Doesn't make it fact. In fact the law has language in it directly opposing this view, but I am not a lawyer, and it would have to be determined through the court system....Do you know if challenges have been brought over this law? If so, what is the current status in its swim up the stream toward the SC?



    Irrelevant. The UVVA passed AFTER Roe No? So unless that law has been settled by the SCOTUS as unconstitutional then there is a real dichotomy in the laws concerning this question of person hood in utereo no?

    You don't get to have your cake and eat it too.



    So, is it that the SCOTUS never can make a mistake, and reverse itself, or is it only selective in what you think should be the case? For instance, Do you also believe that the ruling on Dred Scott is still in force? Or was that overturned by the SCOTUS from its original ruling in the matter?
    The UVVA was passed after Roe vs Wade which is why they had they specified in the law that the law did NOT affect a woman's right to have an abortion.

    While once in while a decision is overturned the right to privacy with regards to reproductive rights has been reviewed and upheld more than a few times since 1965.

    That is 48 years and counting.

    And while I am not a judge I have discussed the feticide laws, the UVVA , and Roe vs Wade at some length with my cousin who is row a retired judge and did serve as a State Supreme Court judge.
    When it comes to matters of reproduce health, Politicians and the religious dogma of another faith should never interfere with religious liberty of an individual or her faith.

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    Re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaugingcatenate View Post
    What a laugh... it IS the law, the 14th Amendment is the law...
    So is the 13th.

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    Re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by minnie616 View Post
    Bill Baird, founder of the nation's first abortion referral center, wrote in his 1993 article
    "The Politics of God, Government, and Sex: a Thrity-One-Year Crusade"
    in the Saint Louis University Public Law Review:



    1993 -Bill Baird
    Like Bill Baird, it's often interesting to read the history of those who remain heroes of a movement. Here's another.

    A Dark Past | National Review Online

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    Re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaugingcatenate View Post
    For someone beaten on all angles, with facts, with logic, with more facts, with facts from your own cases [ i.e., Roe v Wade ] provided, with facts from their own laws proffered [UVVA 2004] proven so far off on knowledge of our Constitution, with so so many of your proven factual inaccuracies littered all along the way like a garbage truck that lost its lid throwing trash in all directions while hauling this garbage down the internet interstate... you sure take a tiny modicum of truth and mostly illogical prevarication and throw it out there as if victorious...

    I will give you props on a Clintonian approach to being proven wrong...

    And the morally deprived aspect of this declaration of victory...simply deplorable...

    PS I note with a wry chuckle how you are now dropping the F on ZEF... that will not quite cover it, sorry to have to inform...but it was funny.
    Your need to declare a typo as a sign of your victory reveals the nature of your "victory"
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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