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Thread: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

  1. #391
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    Re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Nick View Post
    But murder is wrong....

    I agree with facing consequences for ones actions, however I only agree with that idea when it comes to victimless crimes - here we have a dead human. In this scenario a human life was impeded (as in all abortions).

    As a libertarian - My life is NOT more valuable than the fetus - we both have the same rights, and murdering a "fetus" is the same as murdering a 33-year-old man.
    I don't disagree with you - until society changes its view, however, our position is not sufficiently supported to rule the day. Until then, all we can do is live our lives to that standard.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

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    Re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Nick View Post
    But murder is wrong....

    I agree with facing consequences for ones actions, however I only agree with that idea when it comes to victimless crimes - here we have a dead human. In this scenario a human life was impeded (as in all abortions).

    As a libertarian - My life is NOT more valuable than the fetus - we both have the same rights, and murdering a "fetus" is the same as murdering a 33-year-old man.
    1.) its impossible for both the ZEF and woman to have the same(equal) rights, this fact wont change.
    2.) abortion is logically not like murdering a 33yr old man. Say otherwise is simply broken logic, dishonest and disingenuous. There nothing to make that analogy rational, sound, honest or logic based.
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    Re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    1.) its impossible for both the ZEF and woman to have the same(equal) rights, this fact wont change.
    2.) abortion is logically not like murdering a 33yr old man. Say otherwise is simply broken logic, dishonest and disingenuous. There nothing to make that analogy rational, sound, honest or logic based.
    Yes abortion is like murdering a 33-year-old man.

    In what universe is murdering a "fetus" (using your language) any different than murdering me?

    Why? because a bunch of lawyers said so?

    Funny how most politicians are lawyers who write law - even on ideas that are beyond their pay grade. Roe vs Wade would be like a lawyer performing brain surgery and the people approving it.

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    Re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Nick View Post
    1.)Yes abortion is like murdering a 33-year-old man.

    2.)In what universe is murdering a "fetus" (using your language) any different than murdering me?

    3.)Why? because a bunch of lawyers said so?

    4.) Funny how most politicians are lawyers who write law - even on ideas that are beyond their pay grade. Roe vs Wade would be like a lawyer performing brain surgery and the people approving it.
    1.) theres no logic or facts to support that
    2.) its not factually murder and being that the ZEF resides insides another that factually makes the situation different. One would have to be seriouslyu illogical and dishonest to not see the difference is huge and they are not the same.

    a 33yr old man is not inside the woman and his presence alone is not a risk to life.

    now with that said you are free to still think abortion is wrong but when you say things that are factually untrue it doesnt help your cause. Its fine you are against aboriton but when you say aboriton is equal to murdering a 33 yr old man nobody objective and honest will take that seriously because its nonsensical.

    3.) dont know what you are asking. why what?
    why is abortion not factually murder? well facts make it that way. One is free to have that OPINION though.
    or
    why is abortion not like murdering a 33 yr old man? see above this is just a plain fact

    4.) you are free to feel this way but i think its a pretty good law. I would have done it a little different but at least its in the midlle.

    I personally would never ban all abortions or allow them to be unlimited. Either way is too extreme.
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    Re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    those who support abortion tend to be agnostics or atheists, and have little regard for anyone's life apart from their own.
    So your contention is somewhere around 40 to 50% of the country is agnostic or athiest?

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    Re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    Yeah, and I am saying it's bizarre to base a moral and ethical positions on law, which tends to be subject to all manner of pressures and interests. Take for instance the nazi slaughter of the jews, or the iranian execution of homosexuals, etc
    The issue is using a legal term to speak about a moral or ethical position.

    If you're speaking about moral or ethics, then "Killing" or perhaps "Slaying" would be more appropriate. Murder is a term, by it's very definition, steeped in the discussion of LAW not morals and ethics, as it is UNLAWFUL killing. What's bizzare is people clinging to the notion that they need to call abortion murder, seemingly for purely political purposes of wanting to use it as an emotional tool to bludgeon opposition with, rather than calling it something more accurate to their position such as immoral/unjust/wrongful killing or slaying.

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    Re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by minnie616 View Post
    Yes, I am a religious person.
    How do then ignore these passages from the Holy Bible?

    Psalm 139:13-16

    13 For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother’s womb. 14 I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, I know that full well. 15 My frame was not hidden from you when I was made in the secret place. When I was woven together in the depths of the earth, 16 your eyes saw my unformed body. All the days ordained for me were written in your book before one of them came to be.

    ......
    Proverbs 6:16-17

    The Lord hates… hands that shed innocent blood.

    .......
    Acts 17:25

    And he is not served by human hands, as if he needed anything, because he himself gives all men life and breath and everything else.

    .......
    Jeremiah 1:5

    “Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart.”

    .......
    Job 31:15

    “Did not He who made me in the womb make him, and the same one fashion us in the womb?”

    .......
    Isaiah 49:5

    “And now says the Lord, who formed me from the womb to be His servant…”


    And we also have the Didache, which is the first catechism of Christianity, written around 100-150 AD. It states clearly: “You shall not murder a child by abortion nor kill one who has been born.”

    Clearly God hates the killing of innocent life and considers babies in the womb just that.

    http://www.newsrealblog.com/2011/01/...igious-left/2/


    So, do you only pick and choose the parts of the Bible to follow, and those you can disregard?
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    Re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    The issue is using a legal term to speak about a moral or ethical position.

    If you're speaking about moral or ethics, then "Killing" or perhaps "Slaying" would be more appropriate. Murder is a term, by it's very definition, steeped in the discussion of LAW not morals and ethics, as it is UNLAWFUL killing. What's bizzare is people clinging to the notion that they need to call abortion murder, seemingly for purely political purposes of wanting to use it as an emotional tool to bludgeon opposition with, rather than calling it something more accurate to their position such as immoral/unjust/wrongful killing or slaying.
    What if someone believes it is murder?
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    Re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    What if someone believes it is murder?
    Moses supposes his toeses are roses, but Moses supposes erroneously, for Moses he knowses his toeses aren't roses, as Moses supposes his toeses to be.

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    Re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by minnie616 View Post
    I believe in the 10 commandments.
    Most moderen translations of the sixth commandment say:
    "You shall not murder. "
    Well the difference is slight and making the Bible more 'modern' does not give it any more legitimacy.

    Killed or murdered, either way there are many millions of dead babies who have been robbed of their chance for life.

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