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Thread: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

  1. #371
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    Re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    Though I am not religious, I find it odd that people would try and project a legal definition here.
    The sixth commandment has been frequently mistranslated.
    I was posting that the Hebrew text refers only to unlawful killing.

    If "Thou shalt not kill" were the proper translation, no person who took the Ten Commandments seriously could kill in self defense, even if it meant loss of the threatened person’s life, or could kill in warfare, even if his or her country were attacked. There could be no capital punishment no matter how horrible a person’s crimes were. Clearly there are cases where the Torah permits the taking of a human life. And, if it is sometimes permissible to kill another person, most people would agree that there are circumstances when it is also permissible to kill an animal. Judaism does not consider that the sixth commandment refers to animals.

    Since the sixth commandment has been so frequently mistranslated,

    two prominent Jewish commentators, Rabbi Samuel ben Meir (Rashbam) and Rabbi Joseph Bekhor-Shor,
    explained at great length that the Hebrew text refers only to unlawful killing.
    Both scholars stressed the differences between the Hebrew words for killing and murdering.

    So the common Jewish belief is that the sixth commandment should be translated as "Thou shalt not murder."

    Judaism and Vegetarianism: Schwartz Collection - Thou Shalt Not "Kill" or "Murder"?
    When it comes to matters of reproduce health, Politicians and the religious dogma of another faith should never interfere with religious liberty of an individual or her faith.

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    Re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by minnie616 View Post
    The sixth commandment has been frequently mistranslated.[/url]
    Yeah, and I am saying it's bizarre to base a moral and ethical positions on law, which tends to be subject to all manner of pressures and interests. Take for instance the nazi slaughter of the jews, or the iranian execution of homosexuals, etc

    Also, you might want to look other places for authoritative citations on religious text, besides a mathematician

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    Re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    ...

    Also, you might want to look other places for authoritative citations on religious text, besides a mathematician
    The translation is still the same:


    The word "kill" in Exodus 20:13 and Deuteronomy 5:17 means "murder." The proper translation is THOU SHALT NOT MURDER.
    It is interesting that in Matthew 19:18 the KJV correctly translates the Sixth Commandment: "Thou shalt do no murder."
    The Hebrew word (ratsach) and the Greek Word (phonenō) which are used in the Sixth Commandment both clearly mean "murder."
    The Hebrew language has a general word for killing (the verb muwth, meaning "to cause to die")
    and the Greek language has a general word for killing (the verb apokteinō),
    but these general terms for killing are not used in the Sixth Commandment.
    Instead very specific words are used which forbid MURDER.
    The 6th Commandment, "Thou Shalt Not Kill," Does This Command Forbid All Killing?
    When it comes to matters of reproduce health, Politicians and the religious dogma of another faith should never interfere with religious liberty of an individual or her faith.

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    Re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    From Religious Tolerence website:

    Exodus 20:13"You shall not murder." This verse is often mistranslated "Thou shalt not kill."
    Murder is actually being referred to -- the killing of a human person.

    Since the Jewish religion has traditionally interpreted the Torah as implying that a fetus as achieving full personhood only when it is half emerged from the birth canal,
    this verse would not apply to abortion.
    http://www.religioustolerance.org/abo_biblh.htm
    Last edited by minnie616; 05-21-13 at 09:20 AM. Reason: to add link
    When it comes to matters of reproduce health, Politicians and the religious dogma of another faith should never interfere with religious liberty of an individual or her faith.

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    Re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by minnie616 View Post

    My point was the use of "murder" as opposed to "killing" could carry various context in the translation that are not necessarily recognizable from a direct translation. Take for instance, what the mother text would view as "murder" or unlawful killing. Are we merely talking about current law of the state, the laws governing jews at the time, or "god's law"

    All of these would carry distinct meanings that are simply not covered by going the text actually reads as "thou shall not murder". hence, why you shouldn't get authoritative accounts by people that are not actual authorities in such matters

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    Re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by minnie616 View Post
    From Religious Tolerence website:this verse would not apply to abortion.
    Oh, minnie of the one track mind.

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    Re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    Oh, minnie of the one track mind.
    Thanks for having me look up a religious source for the translation.
    When it comes to matters of reproduce health, Politicians and the religious dogma of another faith should never interfere with religious liberty of an individual or her faith.

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    Re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by minnie616 View Post
    Thanks for having me look up a religious source for the translation.
    Are you a religious person Minnie?
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    Re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Are you a religious person Minnie?
    Yes, I am a religious person.
    When it comes to matters of reproduce health, Politicians and the religious dogma of another faith should never interfere with religious liberty of an individual or her faith.

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    Re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    Fla. Man Accused of Killing Ex-Girlfriend's Fetus - ABC News

    Ex-girlfriend was six weeks, five days pregnant, by her ex-boyfriend. Ex-boyfriend didn't want to have a child, ex-girlfriend did.

    Ex-boyfriend tricked her into taking a pill that caused her to go into labor and lose the "baby".

    He is now charged with first-degree murder.

    Doesn't the crime of murder require a "person" to be killed? Doesn't abortion law tell us that a fetus that is six weeks, five days old is not a person?

    Shouldn't the pro-choice, pro-abortion crowd be outraged that this charge was laid and what is the impact going forward if he is convicted of first-degree murder?
    Outraged?

    I'm perturbed.

    Apparently in our society only woman dictate what is a viable life. If they want to keep the "human tissue" "it" is called a "baby" and if they don't want the "tissue" "it's" called a "fetus" and progressives are content with that double standard.

    Given our present law - the man shouldn't be charged.

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