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Thread: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

  1. #291
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    re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by shrubnose View Post
    Whatever.

    I am not going to waste any more time with you.
    Good...

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    re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Yes, there's no doubt that the Founding Fathers wanted their "limited govt." to decide whether a couple should have a baby or not.
    Is that what you read into what the Founding fathers said?

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    re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by Viktyr Gehrig View Post
    Meh. I do not oppose infanticide laws that apply to fetuses as long as they are not designated as murder. Assaulting a pregnant woman such that she loses her baby is clearly a greater offense than assaulting a man or a non-pregnant woman, especially when the assault was for the deliberate purpose of inducing a miscarriage. Murder? Not hardly, but still greater than aggravated assault.



    And I am sorry to have to explain to you that when a person is occupying and modifying your body against your will, you have the right to use force in self-defense.



    Funny you pro-lifers keep bringing up slavery when you're the ones trying to demand involuntary servitude from women. And what is with this festering plague of pro-life "Libertarians"? You'll argue all goddamned day against liberal "human rights" on the basis that you can't have any right to any good or service if it would require another person to be forced to provide it to you-- and then you say that women should be forced to gestate children because of their innate "right to life". Or do Libertarian theories about personal rights simply not apply to women?



    That's really rich coming from a Libertarian. Isn't your argument that all human rights extend from property rights and the principle of self-ownership?
    Sorry to explain to you murder is against the law and our congress are not God - they're generally lawyers and lawyers, and given the fact the majority are lawyers they don't know the first fracking thing about morals or ethics... Not only that but they're NOT GOD and their experience chasing ambulances does not justify their opinion on the issue of abortion because their opinion (along with the SCOTUS) is just about as good as yours or mine.

    You will never win this argument, because this argument is a political argument to you however, to many this argument is a moral argument and you will never understand the moral perspective.

    To kick you - why can the government regulate soda consumption but yet they CANT tell woman they cant murder their baby?

    You don't like philosophy do you?

    Naw, you just want to eat your cake.,..

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    re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by Viktyr Gehrig View Post
    Meh. I do not oppose infanticide laws that apply to fetuses as long as they are not designated as murder. Assaulting a pregnant woman such that she loses her baby is clearly a greater offense than assaulting a man or a non-pregnant woman, especially when the assault was for the deliberate purpose of inducing a miscarriage. Murder? Not hardly, but still greater than aggravated assault.
    So this Fla. man did not commit murder. That would seem to be the general consensus, yet that's what's he charged with..



    And I am sorry to have to explain to you that when a person is occupying and modifying your body against your will, you have the right to use force in self-defense.
    But the fetus is not a person and is not doing any occupying or modifying deliberately. In fact the only reason that the fetus is modifying the body at all is a direct result of actions of the owner of that body.


    Funny you pro-lifers keep bringing up slavery when you're the ones trying to demand involuntary servitude from women.
    I've never heard that argument raised. Do you have a link?

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    re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Says the constitution and SCOTUS

    Neither cares about the abortion banners twisted code of immorality
    I agree.

    Abortion is not about "rights" - murder is not a right or civil liberty. A baby - a "fetus" is its own individual entity - not an organ - not a body part, but an individual - hence it is murder.
    Last edited by Mr.Nick; 05-20-13 at 04:39 PM.

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    re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Nick View Post
    Sorry to explain to you murder is against the law and our congress are not God
    Self-defense isn't murder and it isn't illegal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Nick View Post
    You will never win this argument, because this argument is a political argument to you however, to many this argument is a moral argument and you will never understand the moral perspective.
    Spare me your self-righteous and hypocritical moralizing. Protecting the lawful and natural rights of women is a moral issue for me-- and it would be for you, too, if you cared half as much for human rights as you did for your own social privileges.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Nick View Post
    You don't like philosophy do you?
    I like philosophy just fine when it isn't self-serving and self-contradictory.

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    re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Nick View Post
    I agree.

    Abortion is not about "rights" - murder is not a right or civil liberty. A baby - a "fetus" is its own individual entity - not an organ - not a body part, but an individual - hence it is murder.
    Wrong. Abortion is about rights, and is not murder

    I enjoy watching the right try to claim the high moral ground by posting lies.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by Viktyr Gehrig View Post
    Self-defense isn't murder and it isn't illegal.
    Who is claiming self defense in this case? The father of the murdered baby? The mother? The baby?

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    re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Wrong. Abortion is about rights, and is not murder

    I enjoy watching the right try to claim the high moral ground by posting lies.
    The taking of a human life is not murder?

    So this Fla guy should walk then, correct?

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    re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    So this Fla. man did not commit murder. That would seem to be the general consensus, yet that's what's he charged with..
    Yes. As I've noted before, I believe this is morally inconsistent but I am comfortable with it because his offense is greater than simply drugging the woman; it's practically akin to rape, and I have no problem with rapists getting the noose.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    But the fetus is not a person and is not doing any occupying or modifying deliberately.
    If it isn't a person, it doesn't have rights and the woman can kill it anyway. Even if it is a person, the fact that it lacks the intent to harm the woman is irrelevant to her right to defend herself from that harm.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    In fact the only reason that the fetus is modifying the body at all is a direct result of actions of the owner of that body.
    This is true, but irrelevant to her right to put a stop to those modifications.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    I've never heard that argument raised. Do you have a link?
    It's right here in this thread-- Mr. Nick compared abortion to slavery, but is demanding that women be forced to gestate-- forced to give their own bodily mass and labor-- involuntarily for the benefit of the unborn children. Every pro-lifer does this, because it is inherent to the pro-life position that the fetus' "right to life" trumps the biological mothers' rights, but it's only been recently that I've noticed this rash of pro-lifers invoking the struggle to abolish slavery as if they're on the side of the emancipators.

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