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Thread: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

  1. #171
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    re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    Fla. Man Accused of Killing Ex-Girlfriend's Fetus - ABC News

    Ex-girlfriend was six weeks, five days pregnant, by her ex-boyfriend. Ex-boyfriend didn't want to have a child, ex-girlfriend did.

    Ex-boyfriend tricked her into taking a pill that caused her to go into labor and lose the "baby".

    He is now charged with first-degree murder.

    Doesn't the crime of murder require a "person" to be killed? Doesn't abortion law tell us that a fetus that is six weeks, five days old is not a person?

    Shouldn't the pro-choice, pro-abortion crowd be outraged that this charge was laid and what is the impact going forward if he is convicted of first-degree murder?
    After 6 weeks..a fetus is nothing but a collection of multiplying cells..a potential life...yes..

    But I don't think the guy should be charged with murder..

    Unlawfully administering medication maybe?

  2. #172
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    re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord of Planar View Post
    How can anyone believe what he did isn't murder?
    He killed an innocent human being, in cold blood, with malice aforethought. How could that not be murder?

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors View Post
    As to your question, the only way this could be considered murder (and let's not forget, that's a legal term) is if abortion was considered justified homicide. Since it isn't...
    Uhhh. Yes, yes it is.

    It SHOULDN'T BE, as logic and reason tear away the farce that it is "justified," given that it is aggressive, but it IS considered EXACTLY that.

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    re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by JayDubya View Post
    He killed an innocent human being, in cold blood, with malice aforethought. How could that not be murder?
    It's not murder, legally, because he didn't kill "a person".

    Haven't bother reading through the thread, but this will get thrown out with due time. Unfortunately, the dude will end up with little more than a slap on the wrist when all is said and done. Florida seems like some kind of bizarre acme acres of idiotic prosecutions.

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    re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by vendur View Post
    It's not murder, legally, because he didn't kill "a person".

    Haven't bother reading through the thread, but this will get thrown out with due time. Unfortunately, the dude will end up with little more than a slap on the wrist when all is said and done. Florida seems like some kind of bizarre acme acres of idiotic prosecutions.
    Several states have drafted legislation that allows such things to be charged as murder. I believe, as liberal as my state is, that Oregon is one of them.

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    re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by vendur View Post
    It's not murder, legally, because he didn't kill "a person".
    You don't seem to understand.

    There is one, and only one exception whereupon one may kill another human being in aggression and have it NOT be against the law. I do not and have never agreed with any such sort of exception, as aggression is always wrong, and it should be prosecuted, but I can recognize what the current legal norm is, despite all reason. The only case in which an aggressive homicide is never prosecuted is with an abortion.

    This, of course, was not an abortion. It was not elected, it was not prescribed / performed by a physician. Sadly, in our ridiculous society, unborn human beings are either considered subhuman property or not based upon the whims of their mother. Well, there was no such despicable whim here, and the human being in question was not regarded as subhuman property.

    Ergo, murder, by statute. He could and should be prosecuted for exactly that, and frankly, at best, he should never be allowed to leave prison.
    Last edited by JayDubya; 05-19-13 at 09:54 AM.

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    re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord of Planar View Post
    Several states have drafted legislation that allows such things to be charged as murder. I believe, as liberal as my state is, that Oregon is one of them.
    Not at 6 weeks.



    Quote Originally Posted by JayDubya View Post
    You don't seem to understand.

    There is one, and only one exception whereupon one may kill another human being in aggression and have it NOT be against the law. I do not and have never agreed with any such sort of exception, as aggression is always wrong, and it should be prosecuted, but I can recognize what the current legal norm is, despite all reason. The only case in which an aggressive homicide is never prosecuted is with an abortion.

    This, of course, was not an abortion. It was not elected, it was not prescribed / performed by a physician. Sadly, in our ridiculous society, unborn human beings are either considered subhuman property or not based upon the whims of their mother. Well, there was no such despicable whim here, and the human being in question was not regarded as subhuman property.

    Ergo, murder, by statute. He could and should be prosecuted for exactly that, and frankly, at best, he should never be allowed to leave prison.
    Don't get your hopes up.

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    re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Actually, most of the Africans who were enslaved died before they ever got to america
    Actually I do not think that is quite accurate.I think most calculate the number not surviving to be between 12.5 and 15% being lost in the infamous Middle Passage. William Wilberforce stated the number to be about 4.5% that were lost on the Western Atlantic shores of Africa prior to sailing to the Americas. That would equate to a very large number, however it would rise to the level of "most".

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    re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by JayDubya View Post
    You don't seem to understand.

    There is one, and only one exception whereupon one may kill another human being in aggression and have it NOT be against the law. I do not and have never agreed with any such sort of exception, as aggression is always wrong, and it should be prosecuted, but I can recognize what the current legal norm is, despite all reason. The only case in which an aggressive homicide is never prosecuted is with an abortion.

    This, of course, was not an abortion. It was not elected, it was not prescribed / performed by a physician. Sadly, in our ridiculous society, unborn human beings are either considered subhuman property or not based upon the whims of their mother. Well, there was no such despicable whim here, and the human being in question was not regarded as subhuman property.

    Ergo, murder, by statute. He could and should be prosecuted for exactly that, and frankly, at best, he should never be allowed to leave prison.

    I just may not be in proper possession of what your definition of killing another "being in aggression" might be when you state, and I cut and past the quote, "one, and only one exception whereupon one may kill another human being in aggression and have it NOT be against the law"... so clue me in if its just semantics, but do we not allow many instances, in my view, of what "being in aggression" might be considered? For example, the police in the line of duty to protect and serve the law abiding, or an executioner at the behest and instruction of the state, a soldier in time of war, a person in their own or another's self defense... would those not be in aggression?

    I agree with the concept that this, as sangha et al.,have identified previously under the 2004 Unborn Victims of Violence Act, certainly indicates that as a child in utero, a baby in the womb, can be considered a legal victim and potentially prosecuted just as if the act had been carried out upon the mother herself. This directly from the code to be considered murder under the law, not just morally.

    "(2) (A) Except as otherwise provided in this paragraph, the punishment for that separate offense is the same as the punishment provided under Federal law for that conduct had that injury or death occurred to the unborn child’s mother."

    Now this law truly gets it when it states, under Unborn Victims of Violence Act, (2) "(d) As used in this section, the term “unborn child” means a child in utero, and the term “child in utero” or “child, who is in utero” means a member of the species homo sapiens, at any stage of development, who is carried in the womb."

    Now that folks is very close to being exactly my kinda law.

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    re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    It doesn't negate the simple
    comparison I made. In today's abortion laws, the woman has sole ability to determine life or death for a growing human being and in slavery, the slave owner had the sole ability to determine if a slave would live or die.
    In medical practice parents also have the right to pull the plug and refuse medical care for their children. Is that another form of slavery?

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    re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors View Post
    I find the charge of murder utterly insulting to the woman.


    First, this woman was violated by the scumbag that slipped her abortifacients.

    Then, she was violated again by the fact that no one seems to care that she was seriously assaulted. All they care about is the embryo.

    There's no aggravated assault charge. No grievous bodily harm charge. Just "murder" over an embryo, and "product tampering." There is NO CHARGE for what this man did to HER.

    Women are not just uteri with heads. The fact that no one even cares what happened to the woman is insane and insulting.
    I was basically arguing this earlier. She shouldn't be ignored in the situation. I feel the guy totally disrespected her body and rights. It should be a crime against the woman.

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