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Thread: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

  1. #161
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    re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    I agree with you completely, but CanadaJohn has a point. Does the charge of "first-degree murder" make sense in this case? That is the issue here.
    It makes perfect sense because he wrongfully killed the baby. Our law's hypocrisy does not change that fact.
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    re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by Republic Now! View Post
    It makes perfect sense because he wrongfully killed the baby. Our law's hypocrisy does not change that fact.
    I don't disagree - my point in raising the issue is to see if there is concern in the pro-choice ranks that a conviction could challenge the current laws as they relate to abortion and whether or not the defendent in this case can use abortion law to negate the charge of first-degree murder.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

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    re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    I don't disagree - my point in raising the issue is to see if there is concern in the pro-choice ranks that a conviction could challenge the current laws as they relate to abortion and whether or not the defendent in this case can use abortion law to negate the charge of first-degree murder.
    No. That law has been on the books for a long time and it makes it perfectly clear that the human-hood granted to the baby only applies without the mother's consent. Abortion involving the mother's consent will not be affected because the hypocrisy is already in the US legal code.
    One who makes himself a worm cannot complain when tread upon.

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    re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by Republic Now! View Post
    No. That law has been on the books for a long time and it makes it perfectly clear that the human-hood granted to the baby only applies without the mother's consent. Abortion involving the mother's consent will not be affected because the hypocrisy is already in the US legal code.
    It is undeniable, however, that there is a subtle yet evident move at the states level to eat away at the impact of Roe v Wade and I can see a time when the impact of that law is narrowed through further Supreme Court consideration of the issues.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

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    re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    It is undeniable, however, that there is a subtle yet evident move at the states level to eat away at the impact of Roe v Wade and I can see a time when the impact of that law is narrowed through further Supreme Court consideration of the issues.
    Yes. I personally don't agree with the tactic, but it happens in states that don't agree with the fed. The same way places like New York City push against the second amendment, places generally hostile to abortion will push against Roe Vs. Wade. This case, at best, will shine light on a long standing law which seems to defy sensibility.
    One who makes himself a worm cannot complain when tread upon.

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    re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    Fla. Man Accused of Killing Ex-Girlfriend's Fetus - ABC News

    Ex-girlfriend was six weeks, five days pregnant, by her ex-boyfriend. Ex-boyfriend didn't want to have a child, ex-girlfriend did.

    Ex-boyfriend tricked her into taking a pill that caused her to go into labor and lose the "baby".

    He is now charged with first-degree murder.

    Doesn't the crime of murder require a "person" to be killed? Doesn't abortion law tell us that a fetus that is six weeks, five days old is not a person?

    Shouldn't the pro-choice, pro-abortion crowd be outraged that this charge was laid and what is the impact going forward if he is convicted of first-degree murder?
    I find the charge of murder utterly insulting to the woman.

    First, this woman was violated by the scumbag that slipped her abortifacients.

    Then, she was violated again by the fact that no one seems to care that she was seriously assaulted. All they care about is the embryo.

    There's no aggravated assault charge. No grievous bodily harm charge. Just "murder" over an embryo, and "product tampering." There is NO CHARGE for what this man did to HER.

    Women are not just uteri with heads. The fact that no one even cares what happened to the woman is insane and insulting.
    Last edited by SmokeAndMirrors; 05-19-13 at 07:27 AM.

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    re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    Do you think abortion is murder or not? If a woman did this to her instead of a man, would you agree with the murder charge?
    I think it's murder if the fetus was past 12 weeks of development. Otherwise it's just major assault.

    The fallacy is that many pro-choice like to pick and choose if it's murder based on who did it. It's either a living being or not, the biology of the baby has nothing to do with who killed it.

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    re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    How can anyone believe what he did isn't murder? It was her choice, by law, as to if the fetus was going to be a person, or biological waste.

    /thread... right?

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    re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors View Post
    The fact that no one even cares what happened to the woman is insane and insulting.
    I don't think you've read through this thread. It seems everybody on both sides has said "Of course this should at least be a serious assault charge for hurting the woman", we're debating whether it's murder as well or not.

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    re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    I don't think you've read through this thread. It seems everybody on both sides has said "Of course this should at least be a serious assault charge on the woman", we're debating whether it's murder as well or not.
    I'm glad to hear that. Still, had to make sure I put that into the ether, regardless of others.

    As to your question, the only way this could be considered murder (and let's not forget, that's a legal term) is if abortion was considered justified homicide. Since it isn't, this charge has no legs to stand on legally.

    This is just an obvious ploy by the anti-choice to push it up the court bracket and take another swipe at Row. They're using her as nothing but a pony to their ends.

    So that means one of two things happens. Florida becomes yet another anti-woman state, or the guy walks away with pretty much no penalty for seriously assaulting this woman. Either result is an embarrassment to this country.

    The fact that these people are more interested in making political moves than they are in protecting the woman and making sure this guy goes to jail says a lot about their priorities and how they feel (or don't feel) about women.

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