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Thread: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

  1. #141
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    re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    From your article




    Notice how even the girls lawyer is not arguing that the fetus had any rights. Instead, he is arguing that the girl was deprived of her right to choose whether or not to have a child.

    No matter how hard you try to twist the facts, the truth is that this case is supported by the pro-choice philosophy.
    I can't imagine how hurt and upset she could possibly be by everything this guy did. She trusted him and he drugged her, and caused her to miscarry. It's the ultimate betrayal, and I can't imagine she even suspected him capable of this.


    Miscarrying can be physically painful and an emotional rollercoaster. But the fact the guy would even put her health and safety in danger to induce miscarriage is beyond selfish.


    He didn't respect her choice, her rights, or her body.

    The guy is a total piece of crap.

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    re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by Strucker View Post
    I agree
    completely that it's a crime. Some sort of very serious assault.

    But if the charge is first-degree murder...it is specifically about the rights of the fetus. The woman was not murdered.
    His actions obviously hurt the woman, so the crime and punishment shouldn't just be about the fetus.

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    re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    Fla. Man Accused of Killing Ex-Girlfriend's Fetus - ABC News

    Ex-girlfriend was six weeks, five days pregnant, by her ex-boyfriend. Ex-boyfriend didn't want to have a child, ex-girlfriend did.

    Ex-boyfriend tricked her into taking a pill that caused her to go into labor and lose the "baby".

    He is now charged with first-degree murder.

    Doesn't the crime of murder require a "person" to be killed? Doesn't abortion law tell us that a fetus that is six weeks, five days old is not a person?

    Shouldn't the pro-choice, pro-abortion crowd be outraged that this charge was laid and what is the impact going forward if he is convicted of first-degree murder?
    Good.

    "Fetus" is a medical and biological term used often by people to squeamish to proclaim their proud advocacy of homicide.

    I hope that he is convicted, and this establishes firm case law.

    Human life either is special and unique or it is not. If it is, and than is accepted by the people of this world, you can have the existence that outlook would produce. If it isn't, then you can have the ball of pain, suffering and death that you have now.
    Quod scripsi, scripsi

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    re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    I
    agree with you completely, but CanadaJohn has a point. Does the charge of "first-degree murder" make sense in this case? That is the issue here.
    I am not sure what first degree, second, or third degree murder means or the.differences. It's likely the guy isn't a threat to many people or violent, IDK.

    I think the law and punishment should fit the crime. I don't think the charges and punishment should be about making political points. If the guy viciously murdered his ex, then I'd consider him more of a danger to others.

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    re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    Therefore, why can't a man initiate the
    laying of a similar charge when the woman initiates the end of the "child in utero's" life?

    Whatever you want to call it otherwise, the guy here simply performed an abortion. Granted, it was against the woman's choice, but it wasn't a violent act such as he didn't try to kill her but only killed the child or he didn't kick and beat her causing her to miscarry. All he did was what any doctor involved in ending a pregnancy in the first 9 weeks would do.

    By your logic, if you want to commit "murder" of a fetus, it's ok, but if you don't want to, the same act is first-degree murder.
    This isn't preforming a surgical abortion. There are abortion pills, but this isn't comparable to giving a person a script. This is more like being drugged.

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    re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    Sorry, but you justify it by claiming it's
    not a person. It's a woman choosing to remove a wart, not a woman choosing to end a life.

    By charging this as murder, it is society saying that some people have the right to "kill" but others don't. It says that the woman is in charge of this "life" and no-one else. There was a time in America when black people were owned and their lives were in the hands of their owners. This charge implies that the woman is the sole person able to end this life - she owns the life - sounds like the modern day definition of slavery to me.
    This is absurd. Slavery and murder are two different things. Yes, many slaves were murdered and didn't have equal rights. However, being a slave in America has an entirely distinct history and treatment of people as property, literally people were bought, sold, and auctioned off.

    As much as you may hate abortion, to compare it to oppression, like the unborn is suffering oppression or is being treated as a slave is absurd. It ignores a lot of things about slavery that didn't relate to ending lives. Raping women and children, separating families, and selling children covered in scars from whips is just disgusting and shameful. that doesn't compare to abortion.

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    re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Assault and unlicensed abortion, sure. Probably
    the proper charges here.
    Isn't it a crime to.illegally perform an abortion? I am sure that would require falsely running a clinic and performing procedures. I don't think that that fits here. IDK.

    I don't consider what he did performing an abortion though.

    It's not illegal to perform brain surgery, but it's not legal to perform it on your wife or friend without their knowledge. People have to agree and consent to medical procedures and treatment.

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    re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    That's another one of the big issues with
    pro-choice. They believe only the woman should have any say whatsoever in the life of the child. The man can just go **** himself, his opinion doesn't matter.

    He kills the baby: "It's MURDER!"
    She kills the baby: "It's her FREEDOM, it's not a human being!!"

    I know what the law you posted says, but that doesn't make it intellectually consistent. Either the fetus is a human being or it isn't, you can't have your cake and eat it too.
    Do you think abortion is murder or not? If a woman did this to her instead of a man, would you agree with the murder charge?

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    re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    Sure, the women get all the money while the men get ZERO part of the decision. That sounds super equal.
    This is not true. If men fight for shared parenting, they won't owe child support. That happened to my.sister.

    She got no child support or alimony, and she didn't sign a prenup.

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    re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    This is absurd. Slavery and murder are two different things. Yes, many slaves were murdered and didn't have equal rights. However, being a slave in America has an entirely distinct history and treatment of people as property, literally people were bought, sold, and auctioned off.

    As much as you may hate abortion, to compare it to oppression, like the unborn is suffering oppression or is being treated as a slave is absurd. It ignores a lot of things about slavery that didn't relate to ending lives. Raping women and children, separating families, and selling children covered in scars from whips is just disgusting and shameful. that doesn't compare to abortion.
    And guess what? Almost all those people got to live, have children and those children got to be free, and usually prosper.

    Aborted children get to be dead.

    As practices, casual, elective Abortion is a far worse abomination than slavery, which does nothing to make slavery less evil. The slave may hope to be freed, or for his children to be freed. He may appeal to the affections and mercies of his master. He may have hope. Aborted children are denied any appeal to mercy or affection, hope is denied them.
    Last edited by Oftencold; 05-19-13 at 12:47 AM. Reason: minor typo
    Quod scripsi, scripsi

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