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Thread: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

  1. #101
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    re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Just because a murder charge is sought, doesn't mean there's been a murder.

    Y'all seem to be arguing as if a verdict has been handed down.

    Just because "they're" seeking a murder charge in no way means they'll get it.

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    re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    I've both cited the law *and* explained why the pro-choice philosophy supports criminal penalties for someone who causes harm to the fetus (ie it takes the mothers choice away)

    Not sure what more you're looking for
    That's another one of the big issues with pro-choice. They believe only the woman should have any say whatsoever in the life of the child. The man can just go **** himself, his opinion doesn't matter.

    He kills the baby: "It's MURDER!"
    She kills the baby: "It's her FREEDOM, it's not a human being!!"

    I know what the law you posted says, but that doesn't make it intellectually consistent. Either the fetus is a human being or it isn't, you can't have your cake and eat it too.

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    re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    This is where you are getting confused, the law isn't based on gender. If a man could bear a baby do you think that this law would not apply? The law is based on circumstances. If the woman wanted to abort and had the boyfriend give her that pill would this guy still be charged with murder? Nope he wouldn't. He might be charged with something else like practicing medicine without a license but not murder.
    You are absolutely correct

    These laws don't discriminate. Under these laws, a man has just as much right to end any pregnancies he may have by getting an abortion, just as a woman has just as much right to wear a condom when having sex.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    I've both cited the law *and* explained why the pro-choice philosophy supports criminal penalties for someone who causes harm to the fetus (ie it takes the mothers choice away)

    Not sure what more you're looking for
    No one is disputing that the guy in this case needs to be charged for the actions he took - the dispute is as it relates to the charge of first-degree murder. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you seem to believe the charge is reasonable and within the parameters of the law - my view, while I support the murder charge because I believe life begins at conception, is that the first-degree murder charge is inconsistent with both abortion law in the US as well as the terms of the legislation you cite.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

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    re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    You are absolutely correct

    These laws don't discriminate. Under these laws, a man has just as much right to end any pregnancies he may have by getting an abortion, just as a woman has just as much right to wear a condom when having sex.
    Let's take this a step further - do you believe a woman would be charged with murder if she purposely caused herself to miscarry as punishment against her spouse or lover?
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

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    re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    No one is disputing that the guy in this case needs to be charged for the actions he took - the dispute is as it relates to the charge of first-degree murder. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you seem to believe the charge is reasonable and within the parameters of the law - my view, while I support the murder charge because I believe life begins at conception, is that the first-degree murder charge is inconsistent with both abortion law in the US as well as the terms of the legislation you cite.
    If you kill a person (ie someone who has been born) you are charged under 18 USC 1111 of the criminal code

    If you kill a "child in utero", then you are charged under 18 USC 1841 of the criminal code

    No matter how many times you claim it's the same thing, it is different.

    If you commit fraud using the Internet, you are charged with "wire fraud", even if you were on a wireless network.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  7. #107
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    re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    Let's take this a step further - do you believe a woman would be charged with murder if she purposely caused herself to miscarry as punishment against her spouse or lover?
    Again, she has the right to choose if she will try to carry her pregnancy to term. The only charges that might apply, as far as I can see, are charges relating to harming herself or performing a medical procedure without a license. I doubt she would be charged for those.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  8. #108
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    re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    You are absolutely correct

    These laws don't discriminate. Under these laws, a man has just as much right to end any pregnancies he may have by getting an abortion, just as a woman has just as much right to wear a condom when having sex.
    There have been female condoms for decades now and your argument sounds very much like the one you oppose where it comes to gay marriage.

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    re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Again, she has the right to choose if she will try to carry her pregnancy to term. The only charges that might apply, as far as I can see, are charges relating to harming herself or performing a medical procedure without a license. I doubt she would be charged for those.
    Suppose she chose to carry her pregnancy to term, but in a fit of rage decided to punish the father of her child by purposely miscarrying?
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

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    re: Florida Man Charged with Murder for Killing Ex-Girlfriend's FETUS[W330;338]

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    Suppose she chose to carry her pregnancy to term, but in a fit of rage decided to punish the father of her child by purposely miscarrying?
    Same thing. She has the choice and she can change her mind
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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