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Thread: Mcclatchy: amabasador Stevens twice said no to military offers of more security

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    Re: Mcclatchy: amabasador Stevens twice said no to military offers of more security

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    So since Stevens said he didn't want more security, when the attack came Obama decided to dish out some tough love, right?
    Here are more menacing threats from The Man Who Served In Vietnam.

    Kerry warns Russia against selling high-performance missiles to Syria - Washington Post

    That should make Putin nervous.

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    Re: Mcclatchy: amabasador Stevens twice said no to military offers of more security

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Both premises are accurate and there is much historical evidence to document them.
    give us some examples where the US' sovereignity has been violated without consequence
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    A shutdown falls on the President's lack of leadership. He can't even control his party and get people together in a room. A shutdown means the President is weak ~ Donald Trump 2013

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    Re: Mcclatchy: amabasador Stevens twice said no to military offers of more security

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    You are starting with a premise that we do not have to observe other sovereign states, and by implication, that other countries do not have to observe ours.
    President Obama's entire drone program is premised on not observing other sovereign states.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

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    Re: Mcclatchy: amabasador Stevens twice said no to military offers of more security

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Both premises are accurate and there is much historical evidence to document them.
    Not when it comes to embassies. Beyond Iran in 79, I'm not aware of external US military forces being sent in to host states to engage in an embassy rescue without the host states permission in modern times, and as far as it happening in the US, I know it hasn't happened in modern times, but I'll be interested to see what you have.
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

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    Re: Mcclatchy: amabasador Stevens twice said no to military offers of more security

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    President Obama's entire drone program is premised on not observing other sovereign states.
    Again, in the context of embassies?

    And please, if you have objections to drones, you need to go back to Bush.....and ps, I think they are an abomination, as are CIA political murders, the AUMF.....but that is beyond the context of this discussion. If you don't think we can willy-nilly do these things, then you have negated yourself from THIS discussion.
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

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    Re: Mcclatchy: amabasador Stevens twice said no to military offers of more security

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    You are starting with a premise that we do not have to observe other sovereign states, and by implication,
    that other countries do not have to observe ours.
    So your'e saying the order to stand down was made with Lybia's sovereignty in mind ?

    Unbelievable.

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    Re: Mcclatchy: amabasador Stevens twice said no to military offers of more security

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    Again, in the context of embassies?

    And please, if you have objections to drones, you need to go back to Bush.....and ps, I think they are an abomination, as are CIA political murders, the AUMF.....but that is beyond the context of this discussion. If you don't think we can willy-nilly do these things, then you have negated yourself from THIS discussion.
    Let's be clear - there is far more justification for crossing a country's borders in order to rescue diplomatic representatives than there is to conduct a foray to either kill an enemy, such as in the case of bin Laden, or to fly a drone into a country to bomb out of existence an individual believed to be an enemy, often with innocents in the area being sacraficed as collateral damage. My drone reference was a bang on destruction of your argument.

    I'd simply add - do you think the Israelis would have wrung their hands and said, "too bad, so sad" as their countrymen were under attack? And again, I point out that had it been Obama who was holed up in some country under a similar attack, there would have been no complaints about not having enough time to plan or not having the host country welcome you in.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

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    Re: Mcclatchy: amabasador Stevens twice said no to military offers of more security

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    Let's be clear - there is far more justification for crossing a country's borders in order to rescue diplomatic representatives than there is to conduct a foray to either kill an enemy, such as in the case of bin Laden, or to fly a drone into a country to bomb out of existence an individual believed to be an enemy, often with innocents in the area being sacraficed as collateral damage. My drone reference was a bang on destruction of your argument.

    I'd simply add -
    do you think the Israelis would have wrung their hands and said, "too bad, so sad" as their countrymen were under attack? And again, I point out that had it been Obama who was holed up in some country under a similar attack, there would have been no complaints about not having enough time to plan or not having the host country welcome you in.
    hell of an example
    the israelis refuse to recognize any state's sovereignity when they choose to conduct a military operation
    that is an pattern we don't need to follow, otherwise we will earn - and deserve - the same international condemnation which is presently reserved for israel and its unilateral, abhorrent actions
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    A shutdown falls on the President's lack of leadership. He can't even control his party and get people together in a room. A shutdown means the President is weak ~ Donald Trump 2013

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    Re: Mcclatchy: amabasador Stevens twice said no to military offers of more security

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    Let's be clear - there is far more justification for crossing a country's borders in order to rescue diplomatic representatives than there is to conduct a foray to either kill an enemy, such as in the case of bin Laden, or to fly a drone into a country to bomb out of existence an individual believed to be an enemy, often with innocents in the area being sacraficed as collateral damage. My drone reference was a bang on destruction of your argument.
    Again, "justification" for either comes from a "victim" point of view, you wouldn't have the same viewpoint if US forces were coming into Canada to engage terrorists attacking a US embassy there....but then I don't know how fast and loose your views on this matter are, so this is an assumption.

    I'd simply add - do you think the Israelis would have wrung their hands and said, "too bad, so sad" as their countrymen were under attack?
    Again, we are not Israel, Israel gets away with it. They get away with a lot of illegal activity, and they get a pass from ultracons.


    And again, I point out that had it been Obama who was holed up in some country under a similar attack, there would have been no complaints about not having enough time to plan or not having the host country welcome you in.
    Is this an argument that security for all, and in this case Stevens who did not want the security should be the same.....or is this just more victim/emotional appeals?
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

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    Re: Mcclatchy: amabasador Stevens twice said no to military offers of more security

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    Again, "justification" for either comes from a "victim" point of view, you wouldn't have the same viewpoint if US forces were coming into Canada to engage terrorists attacking a US embassy there....but then I don't know how fast and loose your views on this matter are, so this is an assumption.

    Again, we are not Israel, Israel gets away with it. They get away with a lot of illegal activity, and they get a pass from ultracons.


    Is this an argument that security for all, and in this case Stevens who did not want the security should be the same.....or is this just more victim/emotional appeals?
    Firstly, it would never happen here, but if it did Canadian forces wouldn't sit by while our strongest ally was being attacked on our soil. That said, I feel very confident that Canada would not stand in the way of any effort by Americans to rescue their countrymen.

    Secondly, it's a little disengenuous of you to say the Israelis "get away with a lot of illegal activity" when America conducts it's fair share of illegal activity all over the world based on their position as the world's only superpower.

    Finally, my argument is based on a belief that all people who are serving their country deserve to expect their country will come to their rescue if they find themselves in harms way and even if they are unsuccessful, they will consider their lives of sufficient worth to at least try.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

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