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Thread: Acting IRS commissioner resigns in wake of agency scandal

  1. #71
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    Re: Acting IRS commissioner resigns in wake of agency scandal

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    But you're smart enough to know that,
    What I'm smart enough to know is people keep talking about these keywords, like they are simply attacks on conservationism. The fact is if my pretend organization had been named "The Progressive Patriot", it would have been flagged for review as well.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dickieboy View Post
    You are 'cherrypicking' again.
    No, I'm not. You are the one who is ignoring the important section of the report. I'll repeat:

    In addition, several organizations applying for I.R.C. § 501(c)(4) tax-exempt status made allegations that the IRS 1) targeted specific groups applying for tax-exempt status, 2) delayed the processing of targeted groups’ applications for tax-exempt status, and 3) requested unnecessary information from targeted organizations. Lastly, several members of Congress requested that the IRS investigate whether existing social welfare organizations are improperly engaged in a substantial, or even predominant, amount of campaign activity.
    This is about 501(c)4. And 501(c)4 claims doubled.

    There's no cherry picking, it's right there in the report you cited.

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    Re: Acting IRS commissioner resigns in wake of agency scandal

    Quote Originally Posted by Slyfox696 View Post
    ...No, I'm not. You are the one who is ignoring the important section of the report. I'll repeat:
    But you selectively omitted the previous sentence:

    During the 2012 election cycle, some members of Congress raised concerns to the IRS about selective enforcement and the duty to treat similarly situated organizations consistently.

    This is about 501(c)4.
    Then why did the IG's report state:

    In August 2010, the Determinations Unit distributed the first formal BOLO listing. The criteria in the BOLO listing were Tea Party organizations applying for I.R.C. § 501(c)(3) or I.R.C. § 501(c)(4) status.
    Further:

    As a result, the IRS delayed the issuance of letters to organizations approving their tax-exempt status. For I.R.C. § 501(c)(3) organizations, this means that potential donors and grantors could be reluctant to provide donations or grants
    It would appear that the IRS was looking at BOTH c3 AND c4's.

    And 501(c)4 claims doubled.
    I have previously stipulated this but comparatively it is insignificant...

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickieboy View Post
    ...While I stipulate there WAS a doubling of c4's the '10-'12 increase in c4's (~1,622) pales when compared to the increase in c3's (~7,057) but considering that there were ~63,148 applications in '10 were are talking about a 'mere' ~14% increase and not the 'doubling' that has been advanced. Considering the IG's investigation included c3&4's it seems 'cherrypicking' to pontificate on c3's only.
    Last edited by Dickieboy; 05-16-13 at 10:39 AM.
    "The fact that we are here today to debate raising America's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure" - 2006 Senator Obama...leadership failure indeed!

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    Re: Acting IRS commissioner resigns in wake of agency scandal

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickieboy View Post
    It is not. Given the time frame of the investigation, the influx of new applications we both know who overwhelmingly used this name. Perhaps you can provide examples of progressive/liberal organizations that have "patriot' in their names. This would certainly solidify your supposition.
    But his assertion is incorrect. Note that the table on page 2 indicates that 501c4's do not have to 'apply to the IRS'.
    Quote Originally Posted by Slyfox696 View Post
    I'm not telling you that you're wrong, but I do not see what you are talking about. Could you quote the section you're referring to?
    Is he any relation to Bruce Lee?
    I'm wrong about needing to apply for 501(c)(4) status. Groups appear to be able to self declare. So this begs the question, why would anyone bother applying?

    Here's a few sources that describe some of the intricacies of 501(c)(4) legislation.
    http://afjactioncampaign.org/wp-cont...ganization.pdf
    http://www.texascbar.org/content/leg...es501cOrgs.pdf
    http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-tege/eotopicm95.pdf
    http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-tege/eotopici03.pdf

    501(c)(4) status originated in 1913 upon request from the Chamber of Commerce. It's a catchall for groups which aren't taxable entities, but don't merit tax deductible donations. Furthermore, the law allows these groups to engage in political activity by either an attached PAC or by using donations specifically earmarked for independent expenditures (campaign adds). In both of these cases, the law mandates that donors for these funds be made public.

    Prior to Citizens United, it made perfect sense for a 501(c)(4) to be able to self declare. Donations to 501(c)(4)'s are not permitted as charitable deductions meaning you can't use them as a tax shelter and funds raised are not permitted to benefit any of the leadership. Furthermore, the “not primarily political” distinction was fine because all political activity was subject to the same laws as it was for any other organization.

    Citizen's United broke 501(c)(4)'s because it allowed them to use general treasury funds (with anonymous donors) instead of specially earmarked funds which require donors to be publicly disclosed. Now there was a huge benefit for a political organization to declare as a 501(c)(4) because it allowed donors to influence politics autonomously; something that had been illegal for the last hundred years.

    Self Declaring allows organizations to begin acting like 501(c)(4)'s without waiting for approval, but does not free them from the approval process. When processing their taxes, IRS will then review the organizations to insure that they filed correctly. They still go through the application process, it's just after the fact and it was expected that the IRS would give greater scrutiny to groups that self declare. But the real reason to get approval first, particularly if your goal is to allow donors to autonomously influence elections, is that if your status is revoked your group will have to disclose all of it's donors and pay appropriate penalties.

    This means that if you're a 501(c)(4) group that has not been pre-approved, your donors risk being exposed if you engage in political activity. Therefore you'd want to obtain approval first, so that your donors are not exposed.

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    Re: Acting IRS commissioner resigns in wake of agency scandal

    Quote Originally Posted by nota bene View Post
    That's one, and I don't want him to be a sacrificial lamb. Acting IRS commissioner resigns in wake of agency scandal | Fox News
    As Fox News points out, the IRS Commissioner fell on a sword that wasn't even there. He was due to retire in a couple of weeks.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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    Re: Acting IRS commissioner resigns in wake of agency scandal

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    As Fox News points out, the IRS Commissioner fell on a sword that wasn't even there. He was due to retire in a couple of weeks.
    And as Fox news ignored, the IRS Commissioner from Mar 24, 2008 - Nov 9, 2012 was Douglas H. Shulman, a Republican appointed by Bush.

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    Re: Acting IRS commissioner resigns in wake of agency scandal

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    As Fox News points out, the IRS Commissioner fell on a sword that wasn't even there. He was due to retire in a couple of weeks.
    That sword offers full retirement and benefits. It's a really nice sword that isn't there. Hardly a sacrificial lamb. More like a celebratory gloat.

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    Re: Acting IRS commissioner resigns in wake of agency scandal

    appointed by Bush
    yes, but when his agency engaged in the CRIMINAL persecution of only this white house's political enemies, mr shulman worked for someone else

    hello

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    Re: Acting IRS commissioner resigns in wake of agency scandal

    Quote Originally Posted by The Prof View Post
    yes, but when his agency engaged in the CRIMINAL persecution of only this white house's political enemies, mr shulman worked for someone else

    hello
    Is this a character weakness common to all Republicans? When the President is Republican they're competent incorruptible government agents bravely fighting the good fight. But put a Democrat in office and they instantly become corrupt bureaucrats, simultaneously walking the line between incompetent and evil genious.

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    Re: Acting IRS commissioner resigns in wake of agency scandal

    I've noticed the headlines have changed from "IRS Commisioner steps down" to "Obama fires IRS Commisioner". Watching a changing of the message first hand.

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    Re: Acting IRS commissioner resigns in wake of agency scandal

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    I've noticed the headlines have changed from "IRS Commisioner steps down" to "Obama fires IRS Commisioner". Watching a changing of the message first hand.
    the treasury secretary requested the acting commissioner's resignation
    and then accepted it

    appears it was both

    the administration requested the resignation

    the acting commissioner stepped down

    now, what do you find to be the distinction between the two?
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
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