Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 44

Thread: Scientists Clone Human Embryo for the First Time

  1. #21
    Sage
    Sherman123's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Northeast US
    Last Seen
    11-23-17 @ 11:12 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    7,774

    Re: Scientists Clone Human Embryo for the First Time

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    Science fiction writers not withstanding, that will never be possible because of the way the human brain works. Our brains are "built" not downloaded like computer memory.
    There are a wealth of scientists and theoreticians who would disagree that something approximating that is impossible. Research into whole brain emulation, artificial neural networks, and the like are in part driven by a curiosity over how exactly information in the brain is created, stored, etc and whether or not it might be possible to emulate, transfer, or isolate it. This is one partitioned area of research, but to lop it off as 'never being possible' is a mistake IMO.

    Unless we are talking about a physical law that would be violated (and even then the word impossible isn't always apt) it usually doesn't pay to bet against possibility. History is too replete with those claiming impossibility being proven wrong for me to be comfortable with that.

  2. #22
    Sage
    Sherman123's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Northeast US
    Last Seen
    11-23-17 @ 11:12 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    7,774

    Re: Scientists Clone Human Embryo for the First Time

    Quote Originally Posted by Unitedwestand13 View Post
    This is nothing but trouble. Aren't we forgetting the ultamite law of nature is that we we cannot change what we are born with. If we start altering the genetics of our species, can we really continue to call ourselves human, as we erase or alter the very essence of our existance.

    I may be agnostic but I know that this kind of experimentation always end in tragedy.
    There is no 'law of nature' that says that--moreover we do it all the time! Every drug you've ever imbibed, every injection you've ever received, every vitamin you've ever consumed is an alteration to your 'natural state'. In the modern day we've given people advanced bionics, cochlear implants, and life saving experimental gene therapies to name just a few.

    One of the fundamental elements of being human is our relentless drive to reshape our environment to suit our wants and interests. That includes ourselves.

  3. #23
    Global Moderator
    The Hammer of Chaos
    Goshin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Dixie
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 12:28 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    44,185

    Re: Scientists Clone Human Embryo for the First Time

    Quote Originally Posted by ReformCollege View Post
    Perhaps that is because embryonic stem cells are being researched for far more ambitious purposes? IE, a full liver transplant?

    I really don't know enough to say.

    Fiddling While Rome Burns
    ISIS: Carthago Delenda Est
    "I used to roll the dice; see the fear in my enemies' eyes... listen as the crowd would sing, 'now the old king is dead, Long Live the King.'.."

  4. #24
    Sage
    Oftencold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    A small village in Alaska
    Last Seen
    05-09-14 @ 12:53 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    5,044

    Re: Scientists Clone Human Embryo for the First Time

    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    How long until we can harvest a liver from our own clone in captivity?
    Stay out of my basement!
    Quod scripsi, scripsi

  5. #25
    Sage
    Sherman123's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Northeast US
    Last Seen
    11-23-17 @ 11:12 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    7,774

    Re: Scientists Clone Human Embryo for the First Time

    Quote Originally Posted by Grand Mal View Post
    It wouldn't be 'we', though, as in you and me and other idealists. It would be 'they' as in DuPont and Monsanto and General Dynamics and Phizer. Companies have already filed to patent genes and they modify plant seeds with genes from animals. What you describe sounds good until someone sees a way to profit from it. Hell, science already pimps for industry 'way too much.
    Just because we CAN do something doesn't mean we should.
    This is the most frustrating line of reasoning I hear from people. It is childish that based on closely held political convictions people will broadly dismiss entire fields of research and effort as nothing more than a part of some grand corporate chicanery that will never benefit the average person. It's all in "their" hands, you know, the 'drug companies'.

    Yes there are ethical problems and considerations that crop up with any of these big entities, and the most emotive among them is probably drug manufacturers. However! It is utterly unthinking to sweepingly throw up your hands and say that 'they' are going to stop this from happening or prevent it from having a positive impact.

    Hasn't your life improved over the past 30 years? Was MRI halted in its tracks? What about new drug therapies? Other new technologies that you find value in?

    I cannot stand our countries obsession with corporate and political conspiracy, it mindlessly hardens attitudes and numbs debate. It's also silly.

  6. #26
    Sage
    Oftencold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    A small village in Alaska
    Last Seen
    05-09-14 @ 12:53 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    5,044

    Re: Scientists Clone Human Embryo for the First Time

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman123 View Post
    Scientists have managed to overcome an incredible hurdle that has confounded researchers since Dolly 15 years ago. But researchers from Oregon seem to have finally confirmed (it's not a South Korean hoax this time!) that they have advanced a cloned cell past the stymied 6-12 stage into a 150 cell blastocyst which is enough to serve as a source/reservoir for embryonic stem cells. This is an extraordinary development, and I for one am excited!

    Scientists Clone Human Embryos To Make Stem Cells : Shots - Health News : NPR
    BBC News - Home
    Yeah, "excited." You and Dr. Frankenstein.

    Sooner or later, this sort of thinking is going to lead somebody with power to reason that "since a grown human is merely a more complex collection of cells, there is no ethical bar to whatever we choose to do with it as a society." (Note the impersonal pronoun.) I sort of hope that you live to see it.
    Quod scripsi, scripsi

  7. #27
    King Conspiratard
    Dr. Chuckles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Last Seen
    02-13-14 @ 03:04 PM
    Lean
    Slightly Conservative
    Posts
    12,895

    Re: Scientists Clone Human Embryo for the First Time

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    There is no such ultimate law of nature, and I quite explicitly said that we probably can't alter already living people. I'm talking about optimizing the next generation. And of course we'll still be human. Carrots were still carrots back when they were purple, right? But even if we're not, why is that bad? We'll be evolving past human into something even better. No more homo sapiens, hello homo superior. Why wouldn't that be preferable to statically remaining in this specific evolutionary niche? What would that have to do with the "essence of our existence", which could use a definition if we're going to talk about.



    Since this kind of experimentation has never happened yet, you don't know how it will end.



    Then we fix them, of course.
    Ot, but "the time ships" from Baxter asks some really cool questions about what ultimately constitutes 'human evolution"

  8. #28
    Sage
    Sherman123's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Northeast US
    Last Seen
    11-23-17 @ 11:12 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    7,774

    Re: Scientists Clone Human Embryo for the First Time

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    My understanding is there are already nearly 100 non-embyronic stem cell therapies proven to work, and Zero embryonic stem cell therapies at present... and it can't all be blamed on lack of gov't funding.
    My understanding based on my admittedly amateur passion for the subject is that it comes down to two overarching reasons:

    1. It is more technically difficult to work with embryonic stem cells because of the bottlenecks in producing enough for comprehensive study let alone practical application. They are also more unstable with regard to rejection and tumor formation in large part due to their coming from donors. Hence the interest in this breakthrough.

    2. The kinds of therapies one would probably want to develop with embryonic stem cells are more 'ambitious' than for adult stem cells. It's been much easier to cross the application threshold with adult stem cells. But I'm not precisely sure why.

  9. #29
    Sage
    Sherman123's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Northeast US
    Last Seen
    11-23-17 @ 11:12 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    7,774

    Re: Scientists Clone Human Embryo for the First Time

    Quote Originally Posted by Oftencold View Post
    Yeah, "excited." You and Dr. Frankenstein.

    Sooner or later, this sort of thinking is going to lead somebody with power to reason that "since a grown human is merely a more complex collection of cells, there is no ethical bar to whatever we choose to do with it as a society." (Note the impersonal pronoun.) I sort of hope that you live to see it.
    That seems unlikely. The ethical leap from embryo to human is rather large. In the 15 years since Dolly I've never once heard a single scientist advocate for the killing of humans to use as resources for medical applications. I'm not sure what else I could say on that count.

  10. #30
    Uncanny
    Paschendale's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    New York City
    Last Seen
    03-31-16 @ 04:08 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Socialist
    Posts
    12,510

    Re: Scientists Clone Human Embryo for the First Time

    Quote Originally Posted by Oftencold View Post
    Yeah, "excited." You and Dr. Frankenstein.
    Do you recall what Dr. Frankenstein did? He brought someone back to life with electricity. We call it defibrillation. Doctors do it all the time in hospitals.

    Sooner or later, this sort of thinking is going to lead somebody with power to reason that "since a grown human is merely a more complex collection of cells, there is no ethical bar to whatever we choose to do with it as a society." (Note the impersonal pronoun.) I sort of hope that you live to see it.
    Because no one did this with things that we evolved with already, right? Nobody ever enslaved a group of people because their skin color made them less than human, or tried to wipe out one ethnicity or another, because those things didn't make people complex because of genetic modification.

    All of these fears have nothing to do with science, cloning, or genetic technology. It has to do with evil people abusing power, the same way they've done for thousands of years. Though it might be harder to do if we were all smarter through modification of the genome.

    I say again, WE COULD ALL BE HERCULES. Actually, we could all be Steven Hawking in Hercules' body. That sounds pretty freaking awesome to me.
    Liberté. Égalité. Fraternité.

Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •