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Thread: Scientists Clone Human Embryo for the First Time

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    Re: Scientists Clone Human Embryo for the First Time

    Quote Originally Posted by Unitedwestand13 View Post
    This is nothing but trouble. Aren't we forgetting the ultamite law of nature is that we we cannot change what we are born with. If we start altering the genetics of our species, can we really continue to call ourselves human, as we erase or alter the very essence of our existance.

    I may be agnostic but I know that this kind of experimentation always end in tragedy.
    Like Jolie having her breasts removed? That will very likely save her life, I don't call that a tragedy.
    Who wrote that "law of nature"? Every newborn has "altered" genetics. Human understanding of our genetics is the next Penicillin.

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    Re: Scientists Clone Human Embryo for the First Time

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    Like Jolie having her breasts removed? That will very likely save her life, I don't call that a tragedy.
    Who wrote that "law of nature"? Every newborn has "altered" genetics. Human understanding of our genetics is the next Penicillin.
    And what if this new science of cloning produces mistakes, genetic mistakes.

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    Re: Scientists Clone Human Embryo for the First Time

    Quote Originally Posted by Unitedwestand13 View Post
    This is nothing but trouble. Aren't we forgetting the ultamite law of nature is that we we cannot change what we are born with. If we start altering the genetics of our species, can we really continue to call ourselves human, as we erase or alter the very essence of our existance.
    There is no such ultimate law of nature, and I quite explicitly said that we probably can't alter already living people. I'm talking about optimizing the next generation. And of course we'll still be human. Carrots were still carrots back when they were purple, right? But even if we're not, why is that bad? We'll be evolving past human into something even better. No more homo sapiens, hello homo superior. Why wouldn't that be preferable to statically remaining in this specific evolutionary niche? What would that have to do with the "essence of our existence", which could use a definition if we're going to talk about.

    I may be agnostic but I know that this kind of experimentation always end in tragedy.
    Since this kind of experimentation has never happened yet, you don't know how it will end.

    Quote Originally Posted by Unitedwestand13 View Post
    And what if this new science of cloning produces mistakes, genetic mistakes.
    Then we fix them, of course.
    Liberté. Égalité. Fraternité.

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    Re: Scientists Clone Human Embryo for the First Time

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    There is no such ultimate law of nature, and I quite explicitly said that we probably can't alter already living people. I'm talking about optimizing the next generation. And of course we'll still be human. Carrots were still carrots back when they were purple, right? But even if we're not, why is that bad? We'll be evolving past human into something even better. No more homo sapiens, hello homo superior. Why wouldn't that be preferable to statically remaining in this specific evolutionary niche? What would that have to do with the "essence of our existence", which could use a definition if we're going to talk about.



    Since this kind of experimentation has never happened yet, you don't know how it will end.



    Then we fix them, of course.
    Evolution is not somthing humanity should tamper with, along with the realms of time and death.

    I picture some supervirus may come to existance that spreads like a plauge among genetically cloned humans.

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    Re: Scientists Clone Human Embryo for the First Time

    Quote Originally Posted by Unitedwestand13 View Post
    Evolution is not somthing humanity should tamper with, along with the realms of time and death.
    We've been tampering with it for thousands of years. We created dogs out of wolves. We turned carrots orange. Doing it in a lab and doing it with controlled breeding are not fundamentally different ideas. The former is simply a more effective method of doing the same thing. And not tamper with death? We've tampered the crap out of death. It used to be that one in five children lived to adulthood. We invented modern medicine and now most children live. We've done amazing things in tampering with death. How are they not a good thing?

    I picture some supervirus may come to existance that spreads like a plauge among genetically cloned humans.
    As opposed to a supervirus that evolves naturally? Those already exist.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grand Mal View Post
    It wouldn't be 'we', though, as in you and me and other idealists. It would be 'they' as in DuPont and Monsanto and General Dynamics and Phizer. Companies have already filed to patent genes and they modify plant seeds with genes from animals. What you describe sounds good until someone sees a way to profit from it. Hell, science already pimps for industry 'way too much.
    Just because we CAN do something doesn't mean we should.
    That's a problem of capitalism, not of science.
    Last edited by Paschendale; 05-15-13 at 05:34 PM. Reason: Added response to Grand Mal... from the future!
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    Re: Scientists Clone Human Embryo for the First Time

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    It doesn't excite you? It sounds pretty awesome to me. I don't want to turn this into an evolution vs creation argument at all, but one of the biggest arguments against intelligent design is that we're not really designed very well. Many living creatures have all kinds of redundancies and weaknesses as a result of the gradual change from evolution via natural election. Not having to rely on that kind of gradual change and overcoming those weaknesses could turn us into the superhuman beings that people have dreamed about for thousands of years. We could all be Hercules. We could delete the appendix from our genetic code. We could give ourselves a more robust immune system that could fight off HIV with ease. How awesome would it be just to fix our vulnerability to astigmatisms and give everyone 20/20 vision? Obviously, "we" refers to future generations. You can't really change a living creature's genetics for the better. At least we can't now.

    We can create a human race that is much more protected against the natural dangers of the world, that lives in its physical and mental prime for two hundred years, doesn't suffer from cancers or diabetes, and never again is a child born with Down Syndrome. How can that be frightening and not fill you with hope and excitement?

    It wouldn't be 'we', though, as in you and me and other idealists. It would be 'they' as in DuPont and Monsanto and General Dynamics and Phizer. Companies have already filed to patent genes and they modify plant seeds with genes from animals. What you describe sounds good until someone sees a way to profit from it. Hell, science already pimps for industry 'way too much.
    Just because we CAN do something doesn't mean we should.

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    Re: Scientists Clone Human Embryo for the First Time

    Quote Originally Posted by Unitedwestand13 View Post
    Evolution is not somthing humanity should tamper with, along with the realms of time and death.

    I picture some supervirus may come to existance that spreads like a plauge among genetically cloned humans.



    Nah, let's tamper away. Tampering is MUCH more fun.

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    Re: Scientists Clone Human Embryo for the First Time

    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    How long until we can harvest a liver from our own clone in captivity?
    STEM cells are much cheaper and easier to store for long periods of time. And ethically clean.

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    Re: Scientists Clone Human Embryo for the First Time

    Quote Originally Posted by ReformCollege View Post
    STEM cells are much cheaper and easier to store for long periods of time. And ethically clean.

    My understanding is there are already nearly 100 non-embyronic stem cell therapies proven to work, and Zero embryonic stem cell therapies at present... and it can't all be blamed on lack of gov't funding.

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    Re: Scientists Clone Human Embryo for the First Time

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    My understanding is there are already nearly 100 non-embyronic stem cell therapies proven to work, and Zero embryonic stem cell therapies at present... and it can't all be blamed on lack of gov't funding.
    Perhaps that is because embryonic stem cells are being researched for far more ambitious purposes? IE, a full liver transplant?

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