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Bohner who will go to jail in IRS case

What I'd like to see is Holder stepping down. I was appalled when he was tapped for the AG job, but he has proven himself to be evasive and unaware (and I'm being generous here).
 
I agree that whoever it was who decided to do this shouldn't just be relieved of their job, they should be prosecuted.
 
sawyerloggingon said:
Way to go Boner, I have been wondering this myself. These people in the IRS have messed with the underlying trust we are supposed to have in the IRS and using the dept for political purposes should get you jail time. Not only that but if threatened with incarceration tongues would loosen up and we might find out how high up this goes.


"Speaking about the Internal Revenue Service's targeting of conservative political groups, House Speaker John Boehner on Wednesday said "clearly someone violated the law" and questioned who would be put in prison for the agency's actions. "My question isn't about who's going to resign, my question is, who is going to jail?" Boehner said at a press briefing with Republican leaders. President Barack Obama on Tuesday night said some IRS employees failed to be impartial in their work and that they must be held accountable."



Boehner questions who will go to jail in IRS case - MarketWatch
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Himself, probably. Taxing the middle class is the life blood of the GOP. Without it, it couldn't afford its multi-trillion dollar military ejaculations.
 
 
trfjr said:
Heads will roll. because once you threaten some one with a criminal conviction they will be jumping at the chance to squeal and start pointing the finger up the ladder to keep from going to jail
Obama should be scared very scared he should start packing his bags now
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Maybe so, but setting aside certain applications for tax exempt status doesn't equate to a criminal offense. It might be against protocol; you could considering an ethics violation per company policy, but it's not a criminal act. Disposing of said applications or tampering/altering such - now that's an entirely different story.

Mind you, I'm not saying I agree with what the federal employees did. I'm just saying that based on my understanding of events this doesn't amount to legal prosecution. Yes, folks should be fired for "purposely" showing a bias against one group of applicants over another if that is truly what happened, but it's not criminal. Just bad workplace protocol.
 
Objective Voice said:
Maybe so, but setting aside certain applications for tax exempt status doesn't equate to a criminal offense. It might be against protocol; you could considering an ethics violation per company policy, but it's not a criminal act. Disposing of said applications or tampering/altering such - now that's an entirely different story.

Mind you, I'm not saying I agree with what the federal employees did. I'm just saying that based on my understanding of events this doesn't amount to legal prosecution. Yes, folks should be fired for "purposely" showing a bias against one group of applicants over another if that is truly what happened, but it's not criminal. Just bad workplace protocol.
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It is a civil rights violation, It is discrimination. It is just as illegal to discriminate based on political affiliation as it would be for race
 
sawyerloggingon said:
Way to go Boner, I have been wondering this myself. These people in the IRS have messed with the underlying trust we are supposed to have in the IRS and using the dept for political purposes should get you jail time. Not only that but if threatened with incarceration tongues would loosen up and we might find out how high up this goes.


"Speaking about the Internal Revenue Service's targeting of conservative political groups, House Speaker John Boehner on Wednesday said "clearly someone violated the law" and questioned who would be put in prison for the agency's actions. "My question isn't about who's going to resign, my question is, who is going to jail?" Boehner said at a press briefing with Republican leaders. President Barack Obama on Tuesday night said some IRS employees failed to be impartial in their work and that they must be held accountable."



Boehner questions who will go to jail in IRS case - MarketWatch
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Ethically and morally someonse stepped in it, but what was the actual law that was broken? I have been wondering what law was broken here for a while. Especially considering the IRS is supposed to look for improper usage of tax exempt codes. Because of their special nature these organizations actually have to do more reporting than a normal corporation to maintain their status, and they do have to go through a more rigorous application process. So going over their application is not actually breaking the law. I would hope boehner comes up with some charges in regards to actual legal statutes. You cannot just have the prosecutor go to court and say these people broke the law. Charges involved the actual law they broke and not some vague ascertation pumped out for a soundbite so boehner can look all hard.

On top of that boehner might want to pull back on all the smack talk. This may not be the democrats. It may very well be that a democrat leaning person decided this. It could also be a lazy person decided to use profiling to make their job easier with a rash of new applications that are coming from tax dodgers. Even more interesting this could be republican backlash since the tea party is actually their opponent and not democrats. Yeah, the tea party is pulling the radical right from the republican ranks. They were all on the right already. It is not like they went after "conservative" groups. They went after tea party groups. if it were the dems there should be some going after of groups like crossroads GPS and the heritage foundation. Instead they targeted things like patriot, tea party, and 9/12. On top of that why the hell would the dems confess to something like this knowing the fallout? If this really were a democrat why would you just confess you did this? If you are a republican you confess because it will damage the dems, and you did your damage to the tea party already.
 
tererun said:
Ethically and morally someonse stepped in it, but what was the actual law that was broken? I have been wondering what law was broken here for a while. Especially considering the IRS is supposed to look for improper usage of tax exempt codes. Because of their special nature these organizations actually have to do more reporting than a normal corporation to maintain their status, and they do have to go through a more rigorous application process. So going over their application is not actually breaking the law. I would hope boehner comes up with some charges in regards to actual legal statutes. You cannot just have the prosecutor go to court and say these people broke the law. Charges involved the actual law they broke and not some vague ascertation pumped out for a soundbite so boehner can look all hard.

On top of that boehner might want to pull back on all the smack talk. This may not be the democrats. It may very well be that a democrat leaning person decided this. It could also be a lazy person decided to use profiling to make their job easier with a rash of new applications that are coming from tax dodgers. Even more interesting this could be republican backlash since the tea party is actually their opponent and not democrats. Yeah, the tea party is pulling the radical right from the republican ranks. They were all on the right already. It is not like they went after "conservative" groups. They went after tea party groups. if it were the dems there should be some going after of groups like crossroads GPS and the heritage foundation. Instead they targeted things like patriot, tea party, and 9/12. On top of that why the hell would the dems confess to something like this knowing the fallout? If this really were a democrat why would you just confess you did this? If you are a republican you confess because it will damage the dems, and you did your damage to the tea party already.
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The law that was broken was targeting groups for their politics. That should scare you very much, Dem's won't always be in power you know and if the IRS starts doing the bidding of whichever party is in power our democracy is in serious trouble.
 
mak2 said:
Exactly. I think who ever did it deserves jail. I just beleive it would be too stupid for a second term president to do or allow if he has any knowledge of it. I just dont believe it goes very high.
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If Obama didn't know about it, then it proves that the government is way too big to manage and needs to be downsized and some of the power needs to be taken out of the hands of the people that currently have it.

Or, Obama is far too incompetent to manage the government he's supposed to be running.

Rush Limbaugh made a brilliant analogy this morning: What if the CEO of BP had said, "Gee, I dunno"? Would that have been exceptable?
 
tererun said:
Ethically and morally someonse stepped in it, but what was the actual law that was broken? I have been wondering what law was broken here for a while. Especially considering the IRS is supposed to look for improper usage of tax exempt codes. Because of their special nature these organizations actually have to do more reporting than a normal corporation to maintain their status, and they do have to go through a more rigorous application process. So going over their application is not actually breaking the law. I would hope boehner comes up with some charges in regards to actual legal statutes. You cannot just have the prosecutor go to court and say these people broke the law. Charges involved the actual law they broke and not some vague ascertation pumped out for a soundbite so boehner can look all hard.

On top of that boehner might want to pull back on all the smack talk. This may not be the democrats. It may very well be that a democrat leaning person decided this. It could also be a lazy person decided to use profiling to make their job easier with a rash of new applications that are coming from tax dodgers. Even more interesting this could be republican backlash since the tea party is actually their opponent and not democrats. Yeah, the tea party is pulling the radical right from the republican ranks. They were all on the right already. It is not like they went after "conservative" groups. They went after tea party groups. if it were the dems there should be some going after of groups like crossroads GPS and the heritage foundation. Instead they targeted things like patriot, tea party, and 9/12. On top of that why the hell would the dems confess to something like this knowing the fallout? If this really were a democrat why would you just confess you did this? If you are a republican you confess because it will damage the dems, and you did your damage to the tea party already.
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It's called, The Constitution of The United States.
 
Objective Voice said:
Maybe so, but setting aside certain applications for tax exempt status doesn't equate to a criminal offense. It might be against protocol; you could considering an ethics violation per company policy, but it's not a criminal act. Disposing of said applications or tampering/altering such - now that's an entirely different story.

Mind you, I'm not saying I agree with what the federal employees did. I'm just saying that based on my understanding of events this doesn't amount to legal prosecution. Yes, folks should be fired for "purposely" showing a bias against one group of applicants over another if that is truly what happened, but it's not criminal. Just bad workplace protocol.
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Forcing NFP's to expose their donors list, that is by law confidential, is illegal.
 
I doubt the govt has been small enough for one executive to effectively manage it...ever. It appears a few employees misbehaved. As soon as he was aware he took the proper actions. Are you and Rush really saying Obama should know what every government employee is doing all the time?
apdst said:
If Obama didn't know about it, then it proves that the government is way too big to manage and needs to be downsized and some of the power needs to be taken out of the hands of the people that currently have it.

Or, Obama is far too incompetent to manage the government he's supposed to be running.

Rush Limbaugh made a brilliant analogy this morning: What if the CEO of BP had said, "Gee, I dunno"? Would that have been exceptable?
Click to expand...
 
mak2 said:
I doubt the govt has been small enough for one executive to effectively manage it...ever. It appears a few employees misbehaved. As soon as he was aware he took the proper actions.
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Did he take the proper actions? Is someone in jail for breaking the law? I haven't heard that yet. All I've heard, is that the chick that ran that division got promoted and they resigned a guy that was resigning in 3 weeks, anyway.


Are you and Rush really saying Obama should know what every government employee is doing all the time?
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If the CEO of a private company said, "Uh, I didn't know", would you be ok with that? Would you give him a pass?
 
I was not aware Obama could put some one in jail. I believe at least a couple are jobless, probably more to follow.
apdst said:
Did he take the proper actions? Is someone in jail for breaking the law? I haven't heard that yet. All I've heard, is that the chick that ran that division got promoted and they resigned a guy that was resigning in 3 weeks, anyway.




If the CEO of a private company said, "Uh, I didn't know", would you be ok with that? Would you give him a pass?
Click to expand...
 
sawyerloggingon said:
The law that was broken was targeting groups for their politics. That should scare you very much, Dem's won't always be in power you know and if the IRS starts doing the bidding of whichever party is in power our democracy is in serious trouble.
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i do not know the targeting groups for their politics law. can you state the federal statute for me?
 
apdst said:
It's called, The Constitution of The United States.
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What part? What is the actual law that is violated that they will have to charge a person with in court. You cannot just say you broke the constitution of the US. This is not pre-school and all of these guys are lawyers and know you need to prove a person broke a specific statute.
 
mak2 said:
I was not aware Obama could put some one in jail. I believe at least a couple are jobless, probably more to follow.
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Obama can't, but the DOJ can. Have charges been filed against ANYONE?

Who are jobless...that weren't fixin' to be bless, anyway?
 
tererun said:
What part? What is the actual law that is violated that they will have to charge a person with in court. You cannot just say you broke the constitution of the US. This is not pre-school and all of these guys are lawyers and know you need to prove a person broke a specific statute.
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The confidentiality of donors lists are protected by law. If a government agency attempts to force an org to expose it's donors, it's a violation of the 4th Amendment, as well as the law that protects the confidentiality of donors lists.
 
tererun said:
What part? What is the actual law that is violated that they will have to charge a person with in court. You cannot just say you broke the constitution of the US. This is not pre-school and all of these guys are lawyers and know you need to prove a person broke a specific statute.
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It's called the 4th Amendment. You're free to prove that these donors lists are actually public information and that the IRS forces ALL non-profits to submit a list of all their donors.
 
Out. :2wave:

Wonder what tomorrow has planned to surprise us with! :shock:

Be well all.
 
apdst said:
The confidentiality of donors lists are protected by law. If a government agency attempts to force an org to expose it's donors, it's a violation of the 4th Amendment, as well as the law that protects the confidentiality of donors lists.
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Actually, the IRS is allowed to investigate the claims of a group applying for 501 tax free status. You do not just get to apply and no one questions the application. It is not in violation of the law to do that. No one in the US has a right to posses my social security number. If you have another person's social security number without permission you are in violation of federal laws regarding identity theft. However, people need to use that number when i apply for things so it is legal for them to use it to do background checks, report my taxes, and many other things. The IRS has a right to use my social security number in their operations. Just like the IRS has a right to process applications for 501 tax free status and investigate them. To go a step further when you apply for that status you actually agree to more scrutiny and more disclosure to the IRS in your application. So not only is it very legal and common process, but the groups were informed of it happening, and they agreed to the terms in the application.

You do realize you can actually look up the applications and regulations on the IRS site and they clearly state all of this in that section. Or did you just procede on the claims of the idiot republicans who are pretending this was illegal without actually knowing what is illegal?

Here let me help you with the actual sections and codes regarding what the IRS respects from charitable corporations and those applying.

Tax Information for Charitable Organizations

Not against the law.
 
apdst said:
It's called the 4th Amendment. You're free to prove that these donors lists are actually public information and that the IRS forces ALL non-profits to submit a list of all their donors.
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It is called you have no idea because no law was actually broken. Feel free to provide the federal code and prove it. I have already shown the IRS is completely within their right in regards to charitable organizations to evaluate their applications and use financial information provided by their applicants to do so. It is not illegal for the IRS to ask for that information, but it would be wrong for them to share it with the general public. Sort of like how the hospital can have your medical records, but they cannot hand them out to others.

You are still wrong.
 
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