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Health Insurance Tax ‘Scares The Daylights’ Out Of Some Small-Business Owners [W:21]

The Prof

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wapo sunday:

Many small-business owners worry that a new tax on insurance providers in the health-care law will mean higher premiums for them, undermining the law’s capacity to lower their health-care costs.

Starting next year, the federal government will charge a new fee on health insurance firms based on the plans they sell to individuals and companies, known as the fully insured market. Meanwhile, the provision exempts health-insurance plans that are set up and operated by businesses themselves (the self-insured market).

Revenue from the tax will help pay for the health care overhaul, which is expected to extend coverage to millions of uninsured or underinsured Americans.

However, because most large corporations self-insure their workforce, experts warn that insurance companies will pass the costs directly to small businesses. The vast majority purchase coverage in the fully insured market.

“Insurers have confirmed back to me that the tax will be passed down to consumers, and the direct impact will be staggering,” Ryan Thorn, owner of a small insurance planning firm near Salt Lake City, told lawmakers during a congressional hearing Thursday. “It disproportionately hits individuals and small-business owners, the people who have been hurt most by these challenging times.”

During his testimony, Thorn read letters from his small-business clients about the likely impact of the new health insurance tax. One wrote that the tax “scares the daylights out of us,” while another warned that it would likely “hasten the decision to move away from providing group coverage for our employees.”

The Department of Health and Human Services reports that among private businesses that offer health insurance, three of every four firms with between 100 and 500 employees purchase coverage in the fully insured market. The number jumped to 87 percent for firms with fewer than 100 workers.

On the other hand, 82 percent of large firms (500 or more employees) run their own health insurance programs.

Robert Zirkelback, a spokesman for America’s Health Insurance Plans, a trade group for insurance providers, acknowledged that small firms will likely “shoulder most of the burden” of the tax. Meanwhile, a new minimum coverage requirement for employers with 50 or more workers will be broader than what some of them already offer, he said, which could further increase their costs as they are forced to supplement their current plans.

The concerns from small business owners and insurance companies have prompted lawmakers to introduce bills that would repeal the health insurance tax — one from Sens. Orrin G. Hatch (R-Utah) and John Barrasso (R-Wyo.) and another from Reps. Charles W. Boustany Jr. (R-La.) and Jim Matheson (D-Utah).

Health insurance tax 'scares the daylights' out of some small-business owners - The Washington Post

how do you survive a train wreck?

liberal ben cardin from maryland is worried about the 25% premium hikes his committed-to-obamacare state is about to experience

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/26/u...t-health-care-law-rollout.html?ref=robertpear

shaheen in hampshire sees employers cutting hours below 30

progressive harkin from iowa is "beyond upset" that the wellness and prevention programs are being treated like the caboose, in that the white house is putting em last for some up front money for education, outreach, salesmanship, propaganda

the biggie, bitches baucus, is the one year delay to the shop implementation, the "thriving, competitive exchanges" promised so heartily to small biz

USAToday: Feds delay small-business health care program

just another promise the presidential prevaricator couldn't find his way to keeping

79 senators killed the device tax in march

Senate votes to kill Obamacare-related tax - Washington Times

how can you work comprehensive reform when half the bill you had to pass to find out what's in it is void on arrival?

is this how lbj did the voting rights act, is this what social security legislation and implementation looked like in 1935?

the candidate covenanted, he'd cut costs $2500 per family

he'd bend the cost trajectory

mr cardin apparently thought he meant he'd bend it down

not schumer

Schumer Admits Health Insurance Premiums Have Increased "Because Of Obamacare" | RealClearPolitics

why did the chair of finance, obamacare author max baucus, call his creation a train wreck?

why did subcommittee on health care chair, jay rockefeller, uber lib, say it's "beyond comprehension?"

'Obamacare' creator Sen. Jay Rockefeller now says law 'beyond comprehension' - Washington Times

is it cuzza fox news?

why are baucus and rockefeller (and harkin) retiring?

why did harry reid see baucus' raise?

Reid: More funding needed to prevent ObamaCare from becoming 'train wreck' | TheHill

you're not gonna get that ante, mr leader, you really shouldn't have put yourself in a spot where you're reliant on republican enthusiasm to prevent a derailment

choo choo!
 
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same beating, different dead horse.

In other news congressional republicans are shooting for a record with 40 failed tries in 4 years to revoke Obamacare through the legislature. Never let it be said that republicans can take a hint.
 
same beating, different dead horse.

In other news congressional republicans are shooting for a record with 40 failed tries in 4 years to revoke Obamacare through the legislature. Never let it be said that republicans can take a hint.

I hope your premiums skyrocket, but no doubt you're one of those getting free healthcare.
 
It's not just small businesses who are being affected....

Last Saturday the Union I am part of finally came to a Tentative Agreement on a new contract with the Company I work for. The majority of the time over the previous week had been spent arguing over our healthcare. The intent of the Company was to try to save $2.4 MILLION dollars a year on a healthcare plan that currently costs them about $22 Million a year (or so we are told). I won't document all of the changes that they had suggested but they wanted a 50% increase in the employee contribution percentage, no first-dollar coverage (individual and family deductables), and significant increases to co-pays. They also wanted to get rid of both current providers to bring in a cheaper alternative.

This is a major utility company that has posted RECORD profits over the last half decade. In the last year they had finally brought several other union groups UP TO the health care percentage that we've been paying since 1999. Their so-called "experts" couldn't answer the most basic questions we had about their proposal. They couldn't even come up with the same numbers we did when running the cost extimates for the different proposals on the table. The condescending and insulting tone at the table when it came to the idea that we were not interested in giving away our insurance plans and benefits was astonishing. These people truly believed that we should and would be willing to just throw away plans we've had for more than a decade simply because the Company wanted to avoid potential issues with Obamacare. They didn't even offer us anything in return. In the end we gave them concessions amounting to a little over $500,000.00 a year and had offered them concessions of just over $1.2 Million per year on healthcare, provided agreements could be reached on other issues (which they rejected).
 
Tererun, you offer absolutely zero counter argument to the articles in the New York Times and Washington Post, just derision and limp attempts at misdirection. Do you actually have a real counter argument here?
 
shut up and link

Obamacare official: “Let’s just make sure it’s not a third-world experience”

third world, huh?

straight from the horse's mouth

Yes, the news which is so desperate to predict the end of the world they continually blow things well out of proportion. Since it was mentioned Obamacare has been heralded as the end of the US. Still, years later like most end of the world scenarios we are still here and actually doing better than when it was passed. But still people love to beat the dead horse and fantasize about how the earth will end. you know the waitress i met last night at Ihop legitimately thought it would be zombies, and she had news stories to back up her thoughts too. Even the government is afraid of zombies attacking, so i guess that means it must be true because the news fantasized about it and the government mentioned it.

I am going to tell you a little secret which is why the US is not going to collapse because of this. It is called the system of wealth. Without the system who says that people like donald trump and the kock brothers are better than the rest of us? Without the systems in place to tell us all they have the best stuff and are the most awesome people because they are rich the world might just come up with another system which they do not control with their banker buddies and politicians. They control the system, the power, and it works for them. Not to mention the system is basically imaginary. The only reason they have wealth is because we all believe in the system that says they have wealth. None of that system is created by god or any power that resides beyond our planet and it's human inhabitants. There is no cosmic wealth counting system. It is all a social contract we agree to, and most of us do it because if we do not abide by the rules of ownership, wealth, and power they throw us in jail or shoot us.

So they are never actually going to collapse the system which works for them. Your doom and gloom for the US is stupid because they will never let it collapse. It is too big of a market. Sop the end of the world is coming because of obamacare is BS. i don't care how many sources you have spouting it might happen. The rich will never let it happen via a philisophical collapse. They have not even proven Obamacare is going to actually make things worse. The only thing the news and doomsayers have done is to show us we cannot trust them because they have been screaming like chicken little along with their p[arrots that the world is going to end since the day obamacare was proposed, and it has yet to materialize in any way.

It is chicken little beating a dead horse with opinion pieces that the US is all going to be destroyed by obamacare, and it is not. Why don't you just bring up Y2k or the end of the mayan calender again? I understand it se3lls news to predict the end of the world, and the conspiracy nuts love when obama is involved, but your pre-occupation with it all is not actually proof anything other than your idea of the world is in jeopardy.

Now please offer us up some actual proof the US is failing because it would seem to me that the stock market is at record levels, businesses are still hiring, and we are all going to go on existing unless some physical threat comes along and wipes out the planet. There is more evidence texas could blow up and kill us all than obamacare doing it.
 
Tererun, you offer absolutely zero counter argument to the articles in the New York Times and Washington Post, just derision and limp attempts at misdirection. Do you actually have a real counter argument here?

opinion pieces are not facts. Our markets are either returning or at record levels. There are more jobs every month unlike before obamacare was passed when we were losing jobs every month. So can you please point to something other than a partisan reporters opinion the US is collapsing from obamacare? I am very happy you think the newspapers are the word of god, but they are opinions. They are opinions that seem to even ignore that the market is up at record levels. yes, if they predict a fall in the market every day they will be correct one of these days. that doesn't mean they knew it or even made an educated guess. they just got really stupidly lucky in betting on it happening someday. i could go into a casino and play roulette and pick 0 every time. i will eventually be correct, but I will be wrong statistically 1/38 times which is a terrible record. that is a better record than these news people have because they have been predicting obamacare will ruin us all since it's proposal, and yet jobs have been created every month it has been in effect, our stock market is at record levels, we have powerful corporations doing well, and people are still out there making money and living life.

It is not a fact just because two newspapers predicted it. learn what a fact is and start looking at the situation without having it spoonfed to you to support your hatred of obama. Oh, and yeah you probably should not taunt someone to beat you over the head with facts when your entire BS opinion is based on really crappy guesses from some idiots trying to pitch their news to a conservative hate crowd who doesn't like reality. It generally doesn;'t work out well for your argument, but if you insist I argue above your level and use facts instead of opinions have at trying that yourself for a change.
 
opinion pieces are not facts.

They aren't opinion pieces.


Our markets are either returning or at record levels.


They were at record levels the day before the 2007 crash. So care to explain why the stock market should be used to judge anything?
 
They aren't opinion pieces.

Yes, since the economy is pretty much going upward they are just chicken little pieces. Now who cannot support their opinion when presented with real world facts like economy strength and jobs being good despite the opinions of the biased news tools?

They were at record levels the day before the 2007 crash. So care to explain why the stock market should be used to judge anything?

because it is an actual economic indicator that along with job growth shows our economy is actually in the state of recovery and not decline despite the claims of your sources saying otherwise without any real world backing at all? Oh, and the 2007 crash was before obama and way before Obamacare. Why don't you bring up the great depression if you are going to pretend the 2007 crash was the fault of a policy that had not even been presented anywhere but MA under mittens romnifeller?

you have the nerve to bitch at me for having no facts to back up my argument and then you pull this crap? Typical Conservative fantasy BS. Not only did i beat your argument in the opinion area, but I have now also trashed you with facts you cannot deny. I think it is time for me to take a bow.
 
There are more jobs every month

Not really true either. About 150,000 people enter the workforce every month, so any jobs numbers less than 150k are a net addition to unemployment. The difference in the U3 numbers has been driven heavily by the number of people leaving the workforce. Our participation rate still is abysmal with only 63.3% of able bodied Americans in the job force... many more flooding to the disability rolls every day.

unlike before obamacare was passed when we were losing jobs every month.

Obamacare is creating jobs now? What nonsense... Can we also blame Benghazi on Obamacare? Seems to me our Ambassador was more alive before Obamacare too!


So can you please point to something other than a partisan reporters opinion the US is collapsing from obamacare?

So, are they a partisan reporter because they are reporting bad things about Obamacare, then? Are they a partisan reporter for quoting small business owners afraid of the new tax liabilities they are facing in 2014?

I am very happy you think the newspapers are the word of god, but they are opinions.

HahHAHAHhaha*cough*hahahah! This statement needs no further response.


They are opinions that seem to even ignore that the market is up at record levels.

Again, when the market first broke its all time record a few weeks ago, the record it was breaking was from the day before the market collapse. Would you consider the stock market levels of the first half of 2007 to be a great indicator of the future economy? NOOOOOOOPE. Stocks are a measure of investor confidence, but that is not a real measure of weather the confidence has merit.


More later when I have time.
 
In our conversations with management, they are less concerned with the tax than they are having to insure adjunct instructors. Still, the public option would have been better all around. :shrug:
 
Tererun, you offer absolutely zero counter argument to the articles in the New York Times and Washington Post, just derision and limp attempts at misdirection. Do you actually have a real counter argument here?

No, he doesn't.
 
Yes, since the economy is pretty much going upward they are just chicken little pieces. Now who cannot support their opinion when presented with real world facts like economy strength and jobs being good despite the opinions of the biased news tools?



because it is an actual economic indicator that along with job growth shows our economy is actually in the state of recovery and not decline despite the claims of your sources saying otherwise without any real world backing at all? Oh, and the 2007 crash was before obama and way before Obamacare. Why don't you bring up the great depression if you are going to pretend the 2007 crash was the fault of a policy that had not even been presented anywhere but MA under mittens romnifeller?

you have the nerve to bitch at me for having no facts to back up my argument and then you pull this crap? Typical Conservative fantasy BS. Not only did i beat your argument in the opinion area, but I have now also trashed you with facts you cannot deny. I think it is time for me to take a bow.

Do you call a growth of less then 2% a recovery. That is like trying to fill a swimming pool with a table spoon. Do you call having less in the work force then we had 30 years ago a sign of a strong jobs market.
I know you are trying to use the glass half full half empty type of argument. if it was the case that the glass is half full you might have a point but the glass isn't half full or half empty the dam glass only has a few drops in it, and you want to celebrate for those few drops?
 
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Not really true either. About 150,000 people enter the workforce every month, so any jobs numbers less than 150k are a net addition to unemployment. The difference in the U3 numbers has been driven heavily by the number of people leaving the workforce. Our participation rate still is abysmal with only 63.3% of able bodied Americans in the job force... many more flooding to the disability rolls every day.

In case you have not noticed there are actually more jobs. As opposed to 2008 when bush was in power when we were actually losing jobs. And net unemployment has gone down. You cannot blame everything on the lie that SSD actually took up all the slack unless you have some actual numbers to prove that the SSD disability roles actually went up enough to cover the people out of work. Still, more jobs this month than last are still more jobs this month than last. It is still not less jobs which was what we were doing before Obamacare was implemented and before obama was president, but I will wait for you to back up your claims with the numbers proving all those people fell out of the workforce and into SSD.

Obamacare is creating jobs now?

Actually, i never claimed that, but feel free to argue a completely different point when you can no longer argue the original. The economy is creating jobs. It is doing so despite your, and the op ed pieces claims, that it is killing jobs.
What nonsense... Can we also blame Benghazi on Obamacare? Seems to me our Ambassador was more alive before Obamacare too!

WTF does this have to do with Obamacare and job....Forget it this is what it is. You are trying to bring in a completely different subject because you ahvbe failed miserable to even rationalize your piss poor opinions. You just spout out some completely partisan talking point without any attachment to the topic at hand.

So, are they a partisan reporter because they are reporting bad things about Obamacare, then? Are they a partisan reporter for quoting small business owners afraid of the new tax liabilities they are facing in 2014?

they are partisan for a couple of reasons. First many employers already fill their unskilled labor positions with PT people. this is because they have always offered up benefits for FT employees. That has always been around and Romneycare has not changed that reality at all. Anyone who has ever worked retail knows they hate hiring full time grunts. FT work is a carrot offered up in front of PT workers so they try and work harder. Romneycare did not change that and make it happen. It has always been there before romneycare was imposed in MA. The second reason it is partisan is it ignores the economy improving to pretend it is spiralling downward. pretty much the hackery you are performing here. Third is that it is unsupported opinion pieces parading as fact to fool weak minded people. Who was the one touting opinions of the partisan hacks in the news as fact again despirte clear evidence to the contrary?


HahHAHAHhaha*cough*hahahah! This statement needs no further response.
yeah, at this point there is not much response you have for your misguided ideas. Well, i guess you could try screaming benghazi again and hope i fall for it this time.

Again, when the market first broke its all time record a few weeks ago, the record it was breaking was from the day before the market collapse. Would you consider the stock market levels of the first half of 2007 to be a great indicator of the future economy? NOOOOOOOPE. Stocks are a measure of investor confidence, but that is not a real measure of weather the confidence has merit.

Evidence does not have merrit because you wish it doesn't have merrit. Unfortunately it does have merrit and the economy has broken record despite obamacare which you have failed to explain at all while claiming the economy is trashed because of obamacare. you are completely ignoring the recession that occurred and the recovery because it obviously shows you are full of crap. But don't let any of that stop you, please do show us some actual evidence the economy is collapsing like you are claiming.

More later when I have time.

Please do yourself a favor. you spouted your partisan nonsense. you spouted your distraction cry of benghazi where it had no business. You cannot bring up a single fact or piece of evidence. Just quit while you are behind.
 
Do you call a growth of less then 2% a recovery. That is like trying to fill a swimming pool with a table spoon. Do you call having less in the work force then we had 30 years ago a sign of a strong jobs market.
I know you are trying to use the glass half full half empty type of argument. if it was the case that the glass is half full you might have a point but the glass isn't half full or half empty the dam glass only has a few drops in it, and you want to celebrate for those few drops?

First off relate that to obamacare which will involve relating the recession to a policy that did not exist at the time. Second show how the economy is in a present state of decline. You are just making a claim it is not improving well enough for you, not that we are in a downward spiral. You people made the claims now back your crap up with something resembling a fact and not just a pile ion by the uninformed and really gullible. I could sit in a church and argue science fact and be outnumbered by idiots who think the world is 6000 years old and that does not make their opinions facts. you are going to have to do something better than popularity among the blind.
 
No, he doesn't.

yeah, because the record levels of the economy and increased employment while we are supposed to be dying from obamacare are absolutely nothing because they completely blow your false argument out of the water and you cannot regard facts when you live in an illusory bubble.
 
Please do yourself a favor. you spouted your partisan nonsense. you spouted your distraction cry of benghazi where it had no business. You cannot bring up a single fact or piece of evidence. Just quit while you are behind.

Ironic. You've had your head handed to you, and you don't even know it. LOL
 
yeah, because the record levels of the economy and increased employment while we are supposed to be dying from obamacare are absolutely nothing because they completely blow your false argument out of the water and you cannot regard facts when you live in an illusory bubble.

I have no idea what you're talking about. I've made no such argument.
 
Moderator's Warning:
Personal attacks and baiting - knock it off.
 
Re: Health Insurance Tax ‘Scares The Daylights’ Out Of Some Small-Business Owners [W:

In case you have not noticed there are actually more jobs. As opposed to 2008 when bush was in power when we were actually losing jobs. And net unemployment has gone down. You cannot blame everything on the lie that SSD actually took up all the slack unless you have some actual numbers to prove that the SSD disability roles actually went up enough to cover the people out of work. Still, more jobs this month than last are still more jobs this month than last. It is still not less jobs which was what we were doing before Obamacare was implemented and before obama was president, but I will wait for you to back up your claims with the numbers proving all those people fell out of the workforce and into SSD.

You are so mis and uninformed it smacks down any creditability you have

"But overall, there are still fewer people working now than when Obama took office at the height of the recession."

CNN Fact Check: About those 4.5 million jobs ... - CNN.com
 
Re: Health Insurance Tax ‘Scares The Daylights’ Out Of Some Small-Business Owners [W:

tererun, I think you're missing an important part of this whole discussion..... The fact that perception IS reality in this day and age.

Large companies, Small companies, individuals, and even the medical community all have certain visions about what the Affordable Care Act is going to do. Those visions may or may not end up being what happens because of the law, but it is what these people believe will happen. They are reacting to these visions of what they believe the ACA will do in certain ways that should be pretty understandable, when you look at it from their point of view. Maybe if the bill was not so complex, passed with so little understanding of what it did, and never truly clarrified by its proponents these things wouldn't be happening.

Until there is verifiable information about what this legislation will do, I can't expect anyone at any level to support it.
 
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