Page 15 of 18 FirstFirst ... 51314151617 ... LastLast
Results 141 to 150 of 174
Like Tree46Likes

Thread: IRS officials in Washington were involved in targeting of conservative groups

  1. #141
    MMC
    MMC is offline
    Sage
    MMC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Chicago Illinois
    Last Seen
    Today @ 11:04 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Private
    Posts
    28,398
    Likes Received
    13045 times
    Likes Given
    17010

    Re: IRS officials in Washington were involved in targeting of conservative groups

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    That doesn't necessarily mean that Obama knew everything about what the IRS was doing. President doesn't have all of the time in the world to know what every department is doing. I find it incredibly amusing that people who bash the Federal government as a giant monstrosity (which it is) find it easy to think that the President knows everything about every part of government and what they're doing. Hello, you just argued the government is so huge, but then argue the most busy man on the planet has time to know what every department is doing. Makes no sense.

    The same people who defended Bush against the idiotic leftist claims that Bush knew everything are now making the same arguments against Obama. Seems some partisans aren't as different as they'd like to believe.

    Sure the IG issue looks dirty, but could be an issue of cleaning house from prior Presidential appointments. Still bad, but considering that Obama basically failed to stop the investigation and his friend did pay it back, kind of a crappy job at a political firing.
    Well my point was Obama knew that he was dictating the change of direction. He won in 2008. Was getting his people into place. While always going after the Repubs. So yeah he was cleaning house. Plus setting the tone for the change up. His Administration. Which his people knew his agenda.

    2009 rolls along Team Obama is in play. AmeriCorps was being investigated. Obama finds out and s**t cans the IG after his findings on his buddy. Grassley and the Media Carries it all into 2010. While pointing out that Obama didn't even have any grounds to fire the IG over. Other than he lost confidence in the man. What a crock a s**t. Then True the Vote takes place. "Why" them first. Well their Platform says it all. Election Fraud and that's what they were talking about. So Naturally The Democrats are going to panic. Can't have more groups out there solely focused on Election fraud and be a Conservative Group from the Right garnering up more money. That could upset the Demo Applecart. Which now we know who sent letters to the IRS. As well as Levin's intention to hold a Committee hearing over why the had failed to address the Demos Side of the issue.

    Unfortunately one can always go and blame the Previous Administration......talk about what they did was wrong. Use that as the rational and excuse. That, because it was done before. That none should say anything about it. That they should accept this is the way things are. Busssssh......5years later. Buussssh its what he did. Busssssh the same ignoramus that all the left claims is a dunce. Buuuush policy destroyed us. Despite most of Clintons S**t taking affect all throughout Buuuuuusssh time.

    Also yeah it was a crappy firing but Obama didn't fail to stop the investigation.....he just came in on the end of it, after the IG had already made its discovery and findings of The Mayor of Sacramento. Which naturally with the Media Coverage and Grassley being aware, Johnson would do the Right thing and pay back the money.

    You didn't think that The Mayor of Sacramento would be highlighted in National Coverage and just think he could walk away from the issue.....now did you? That he could say screw it and not pay the money back.....Right? Kinda Hard for Obama to stop what he knew was being reported to the media and Walpin. That would look like direct interference into an Investigation. Which is why Obama waited until it concluded to make his move. Which again shows he is aware of things in the beginning of 2010. At least with the IRS and this issue.

    My thinking is he doesn't know what was going down with the Justice Dept. That falls on Holder and the Democrats. Like Schumer, Welch, and any other Democrats that were sending letters and Emails to the IRS over it. I would even check those Pol's phone records to see if calls were made. Course I would play it fair and go after any Repubs that were trying to do it to the Democrats.

    Which to me.....getting rid of the Two party system. Just seems more and more like the Right thing to do. Then maybe we wont have to worry as much about such an Issue.
    " I have Learned.....That to be with those I like, is Enough!" ~ Walt Whitman

  2. #142
    Equal Opportunity Hater
    obvious Child's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    0.0, -2.3 on the Political Compass
    Last Seen
    03-19-14 @ 01:33 AM
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    18,827
    Likes Received
    4688 times
    Likes Given
    3566

    Re: IRS officials in Washington were involved in targeting of conservative groups

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    Well my point was Obama knew that he was dictating the change of direction. He won in 2008. Was getting his people into place. While always going after the Repubs. So yeah he was cleaning house. Plus setting the tone for the change up. His Administration. Which his people knew his agenda.
    Well, not all Republicans. Gates stuck around.

    Also yeah it was a crappy firing but Obama didn't fail to stop the investigation.....he just came in on the end of it, after the IG had already made its discovery and findings of The Mayor of Sacramento. Which naturally with the Media Coverage and Grassley being aware, Johnson would do the Right thing and pay back the money.
    The problem with this is it make Obama look stupid. He not only fails to save his friend, but he also makes it look like a politically motivated firing. At the point he entered, it was already too late. Is Obama really that dumb as to get involved in something he likely knows he can't change? I don't know.

    You didn't think that The Mayor of Sacramento would be highlighted in National Coverage and just think he could walk away from the issue.....now did you? That he could say screw it and not pay the money back.....Right? Kinda Hard for Obama to stop what he knew was being reported to the media and Walpin. That would look like direct interference into an Investigation. Which is why Obama waited until it concluded to make his move. Which again shows he is aware of things in the beginning of 2010. At least with the IRS and this issue.
    But at the same time, entering that late means he can't get anything decent out of this deal. He either enters early and gets a political election fight, or he enters late, fails to do anything useful and gets a smear. This is lose lose. Best thing to do would be to stay out. But merely being aware of his friend being investigated doesn't mean he knows what the rest of the IRS is up to. Even after the Republican cuts, it's still large.

    My thinking is he doesn't know what was going down with the Justice Dept. That falls on Holder and the Democrats. Like Schumer, Welch, and any other Democrats that were sending letters and Emails to the IRS over it. I would even check those Pol's phone records to see if calls were made. Course I would play it fair and go after any Repubs that were trying to do it to the Democrats.
    Possibly. That's a reasonable assumption.

    Which to me.....getting rid of the Two party system. Just seems more and more like the Right thing to do. Then maybe we wont have to worry as much about such an Issue.
    Well, didn't Mason and Washington both warn against having political parties?
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

  3. #143
    MMC
    MMC is offline
    Sage
    MMC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Chicago Illinois
    Last Seen
    Today @ 11:04 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Private
    Posts
    28,398
    Likes Received
    13045 times
    Likes Given
    17010

    Re: IRS officials in Washington were involved in targeting of conservative groups

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Well, not all Republicans. Gates stuck around.



    The problem with this is it make Obama look stupid. He not only fails to save his friend, but he also makes it look like a politically motivated firing. At the point he entered, it was already too late. Is Obama really that dumb as to get involved in something he likely knows he can't change? I don't know.



    But at the same time, entering that late means he can't get anything decent out of this deal. He either enters early and gets a political election fight, or he enters late, fails to do anything useful and gets a smear. This is lose lose. Best thing to do would be to stay out. But merely being aware of his friend being investigated doesn't mean he knows what the rest of the IRS is up to. Even after the Republican cuts, it's still large.



    Possibly. That's a reasonable assumption.



    Well, didn't Mason and Washington both warn against having political parties?
    Yeah Gates, Salazar, LaHood, Bernanke, Just to name a few.

    Truthfully.....I agree, he should have stayed out of it completely. As now they know that they can't get Past him firing an IG investing thru the IRS over the same issue. Meaning Jarrett and the rest.

    Course Axelrod and a couple of others did try to use the excuse of Government being so big. Which doesn't do much good for the Democrats and their Ideology of Expanding Government. To admit things are so big now. Would just mean that all the Demos have worked for on this front was always wrong from the get go. Not only in substance but from their Premise from the Beginning.

    Gotta Give Ole George his props.....he saw the Writing on the Wall. Before the Ink on the Paper.
    " I have Learned.....That to be with those I like, is Enough!" ~ Walt Whitman

  4. #144
    Guru
    OpportunityCost's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Last Seen
    07-14-13 @ 05:42 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    4,607
    Likes Received
    1507 times
    Likes Given
    379

    Re: IRS officials in Washington were involved in targeting of conservative groups

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    I see almost no one discussing PACs, Citizens' United, the actual Code and tax experts for years saying it's being abused.

    Looks like a section of the community really doesn't give a **** about what was actually going on and why. They're just here to bash.

    And their complete and absolute silence on the Bush administration's objectively worse abuses via the IRS is quite telling.
    Thats because its off topic. Discuss this topic. It gets tiresome that every abuse is met with Booooossssshhh. The other guy did it too is not a defense, its a lack of one.

    The code as you like to put it, was circumvented by special scrutiny to groups with key words---a policy that was later change. Thats already in writing in the IG report regarding the IRS. It was later changed, if its just fine, why was it changed?

    The current law is what it is. All a group is required to do is be within the law. Further, there doesnt seem to be a lot of effort in Washington to change it. The problem became that only one side of the political spectrum got extra scrutiny based upon naming. What would happen if social or justice were included in those buzz words for flagging? Thats right, liberals would be out for blood. I guess you are right, a section doesnt give a crap about what was going on and why.....

    FYI, the Pasadena church said JC would endorse Gore over Bush in a sermon. Totally apolitical dontchaknow.

  5. #145
    Equal Opportunity Hater
    obvious Child's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    0.0, -2.3 on the Political Compass
    Last Seen
    03-19-14 @ 01:33 AM
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    18,827
    Likes Received
    4688 times
    Likes Given
    3566

    Re: IRS officials in Washington were involved in targeting of conservative groups

    Quote Originally Posted by OpportunityCost View Post
    Thats because its off topic.
    No, it's the core of the topic. The whole IRS "scandal" stems from the code and the abuse of the code.

    Discuss this topic. It gets tiresome that every abuse is met with Booooossssshhh. The other guy did it too is not a defense, its a lack of one.
    What's ****ing tiring is when partisan hackjobs get all upset over **** they don't understand. Fail to understand the reasons, and then ignore when their party did objectively worse **** that had no rational basis. At least the IRS had a rational reason for what it did. I haven't heard any of the "Impeach Obama" Club say a damn thing about how it was wrong for Bush to go after Greenpeace purely because a few donators didn't like them. If you want to get upset over the IRS scandal, you need to go back a decade. Or you are without question a partisan hackjob tool.

    The code as you like to put it, was circumvented by special scrutiny to groups with key words---a policy that was later change.
    The code is still ultimately the problem. 501(c)4s shouldn't have anything to do with politics. In fact, the entire 501(c)4 really shouldn't exist.

    The current law is what it is. All a group is required to do is be within the law. Further, there doesnt seem to be a lot of effort in Washington to change it.
    And there lies the problem. We either get Congress to change it, or we let the IRS crack down.

    The problem became that only one side of the political spectrum got extra scrutiny based upon naming.
    And one side was stupid enough to put politically overt names on applications for a status that bars them from being primarily political. If you were the IRS agent and you got a deluge of overly politically named organizations apply for a status that lawfully prohibited their primary function of politics, wouldn't you start sorting them via names? The IRS did the same thing the Israelis do.

    What would happen if social or justice were included in those buzz words for flagging?
    They should! Actually, social not so much as that alone doesn't tell us anything. Justice could go either way, particularly since many of those are often education outreach for poor to get lawyer help. Nothing really political about that. I know a few in my state with that in their name that do exactly zero lobbying. I'd advocate that the IRS profile based on names if Congress can't get its **** together.

    Thats right, liberals would be out for blood. I guess you are right, a section doesnt give a crap about what was going on and why.
    I suspect that the Democrats didn't subscribe to the same stupidity that the TP did in putting overt political names out. Notice that the one Democrat that got denied was overtly political.

    TP should have done "St. Cloud's Swim Club." That would have likely gotten past the IRS.

    FYI, the Pasadena church said JC would endorse Gore over Bush in a sermon. Totally apolitical dontchaknow.
    But they got their first scrutiny after the Pastor came out against the Iraq war. Which was well after the election. Furthermore, they should have gotten revoked for that statement. They should NOT have gotten scrutiny for being against the Iraq war. There are things that violate the political activity. Being against causing mass destruction is not necessarily one of them. Saying to the congregation, vote for X is.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

  6. #146
    Sage

    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Last Seen
    03-16-14 @ 08:50 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    5,873
    Likes Received
    1416 times
    Likes Given
    1797

    Re: IRS officials in Washington were involved in targeting of conservative groups

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Where is the outrage from our "conservative" members when the Bush Administration siced the IRS on the Pasadena Church for being against the Iraq war?
    Where is the outrage from our "conservative" members when the Bush Administration siced the IRS on the Greenpeace because several Bush Donors didn't like Greenpeace?
    Where is the outrage from our "conservative" members when the Bush Administration siced the IRS on the NAACP because several Bush Donors didn't like Greenpeace?

    At least here, there is ACTUAL OBJECTIVE REASONS to go after overtly politically named groups applying for status that is prohibited from primarily engaging in political activity.

    None of you stand a chance here against me. Get out of the thread before I make an even bigger mockery of you.
    In all your examples there was outrage and congress folks wrote the IG to investigate (similar to this case) which they did and found no 'egregious' IRS actions. However in this case the IG DID find 'egregious' actions which is the issue which the IRS, Congress AND the Whitehouse agrees with...
    "The fact that we are here today to debate raising America's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure" - 2006 Senator Obama...leadership failure indeed!

  7. #147
    Sage

    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Last Seen
    07-17-13 @ 07:16 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    12,537
    Likes Received
    1786 times
    Likes Given
    349

    Re: IRS officials in Washington were involved in targeting of conservative groups


  8. #148
    Sage

    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Last Seen
    07-17-13 @ 07:16 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    12,537
    Likes Received
    1786 times
    Likes Given
    349

    Re: IRS officials in Washington were involved in targeting of conservative groups

    one side was stupid enough to put politically overt names on applications
    IRS scandal hearing: Best moments - David Nather - POLITICO.com

    Former IRS Commissioner Douglas Shulman dropped this bit of advice during his testimony: targeted conservative groups could have just not applied for tax-exempt status at all.

    All they had to do, Shulman told the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee, was act like they were already a 501(c)(4) and then file their tax return that way.
    “There’s no need to go through the application process,” Shulman said in an exchange with Rep. Stephen Lynch (D-Mass.). “You can start up operations as a 501(c)(4) and file your return at the end of the year.”
    lynch responded:

    Dem: There Will be Special Prosecutor and 'Hell to Pay' If IRS Keeps Stonewalling | CNS News




  9. #149
    Sage

    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Republic of Florida
    Last Seen
    Today @ 07:48 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    5,503
    Likes Received
    882 times
    Likes Given
    63

    Re: IRS officials in Washington were involved in targeting of conservative groups

    Heres a random question. Do any conservatives here care who donates to liberal 501c4s, such that that information should be public? For example, League of Conservation Voters, who got donations of over 10 million dollars, and spent 4 million supporting democrats. Does anyone conservative here think who gave them money should be public?

  10. #150
    Guru

    Join Date
    May 2007
    Last Seen
    04-16-14 @ 10:35 AM
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    4,445
    Likes Received
    905 times
    Likes Given
    112

    Re: IRS officials in Washington were involved in targeting of conservative groups

    "There is a cancer on the presidencey".
    "God did not make The Big Bang, the Big Bang made God"

Page 15 of 18 FirstFirst ... 51314151617 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •