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Thread: IRS officials in Washington were involved in targeting of conservative groups

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    Re: IRS officials in Washington were involved in targeting of conservative groups

    Quote Originally Posted by OpportunityCost View Post
    Culpability was primarily through delaying the application process. Never reaching a decision while demanding more and more research materials into a given groups activities. Similar to the delays on oil permits. Same tactic.
    They were still able to act as a non-profit group while waiting the approval of the IRS.

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    Re: IRS officials in Washington were involved in targeting of conservative groups

    Quote Originally Posted by Graffias View Post
    This whole thing is ridiculous. Any group that has the function of political activity cannot be a charity and is not eligible for a federal tax exemption. Whether they are leftist or rightists, they are not tax exempt. Any political group that claims to be a charity deserves the extra scrutiny. I'm sure you'll find in the end of this politically motivated investigation that the IRS was simply doing what it was supposed to.
    The issue isn't the tax exempt status. The DNC and RNC are tax exempt, as they should be. All of theses groups have the same limited tax exempt status, they don't pay taxes on their income, but donors don't get to claim donations as charity.

    The issue here is disclosure. 501(c)(4) organizations must submit their donors to the IRS, but do not have to make them publicly available. Before Citizens United, if they wanted to engage in politics they had to use special funds and would have to disclose all donors who contributed to those funds. After Citizens United, these groups were allowed to use general treasury funds.

    That's why there was a 100% increase in these groups. Citizens United also freed corporations to use general funds to influence elections, but corporations don't want the backlash that would occur from supporting positions or candidates which their customers oppose. The groups were formed to funnel this money into the political process anonymously, and the IRS has been fairly incompetent in policing it.

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    Re: IRS officials in Washington were involved in targeting of conservative groups


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    Re: IRS officials in Washington were involved in targeting of conservative groups

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    I never argued that the Democrats didn't target them.
    Yet you are still wallowing in Obama worship defending the IRS. Nothing more needs to be said

    You ignore the mountains of evidence that disprove your claim and think because 1 Democrat org was denied a claim for whatever reason, that this somehow absolves harassment and intimidation of private citizens based upon their political views.

    This is why Big Government liberalism needs to be opposed. People like you never think it's big enough and when that power is abused and Government is used by liberals to harass and intimidate, people like you fall into goosestep behind it defending it.

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    Re: IRS officials in Washington were involved in targeting of conservative groups

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithros View Post
    That's why there was a 100% increase in these groups. Citizens United also freed corporations to use general funds to influence elections, but corporations don't want the backlash that would occur from supporting positions or candidates which their customers oppose. The groups were formed to funnel this money into the political process anonymously, and the IRS has been fairly incompetent in policing it.
    But the 100% increase occurred from '09 to '12. Per the IG report the 'targeting' issue began in '10 prior to this doubling of applications. So what was the delay when historically the amount of applications was relatively flat?

    And per the IG report MANY of the applications remained undetermined until late '12. Why is that?
    "The fact that we are here today to debate raising America's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure" - 2006 Senator Obama...leadership failure indeed!

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    Re: IRS officials in Washington were involved in targeting of conservative groups

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickieboy View Post
    But the 100% increase occurred from '09 to '12. Per the IG report the 'targeting' issue began in '10 prior to this doubling of applications. So what was the delay when historically the amount of applications was relatively flat?

    And per the IG report MANY of the applications remained undetermined until late '12. Why is that?

    The number of applications rose drastically after January 21, 2010 with Citizens United. This increase was primarily among political groups. We're dealing with events in reponse to this.

    http://online.wsj.com/public/resourc...ppendixVII.pdf

    (The extended timeline is FAR more informative. Actually.... everyone should read it. There is so much misinformation in the media it's scary)

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    Re: IRS officials in Washington were involved in targeting of conservative groups

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithros View Post
    The number of applications rose drastically after January 21, 2010 with Citizens United. This increase was primarily among political groups. We're dealing with events in reponse to this.

    http://online.wsj.com/public/resourc...ppendixVII.pdf

    (The extended timeline is FAR more informative. Actually.... everyone should read it. There is so much misinformation in the media it's scary)
    I read it already but it doesn't substantiate your 'number of applications rose drastically after January 21, 2010' assertion. But this figure from the IG report refutes it specific to the subject at hand.

    501c filings by year.jpg

    Note the chart ranges by fiscal year and that 2010 (which ends Sept 30) was actually LOWER than 2009. I will stipulate there was an increase in '11-'12 but as this issue began in March '10, as your link states, one cannot proclaim this targeting began due to a substantial increase in applications...what am I missing?

    As to the 'extended timeline' it was included in the complete IG report...did you read it? Further can you expound further on this 'so much misinformation in the media'?
    Last edited by Dickieboy; 05-17-13 at 10:03 PM.
    "The fact that we are here today to debate raising America's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure" - 2006 Senator Obama...leadership failure indeed!

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    Re: IRS officials in Washington were involved in targeting of conservative groups

    Quote Originally Posted by OpportunityCost View Post
    IRS officials in Washington were involved in targeting of conservative groups - The Washington Post







    Its just some dudes in Cincy. The IRS wasnt doing this! Suuuure they weren't. There is blood in the water on this one, expect the leaks to become a lot larger and more detailed as this goes on.
    Yup. Awful performance today in Congress by outgoing Acting Commissioner of the IRS guarantees strong Congressional follow-up.
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    Re: IRS officials in Washington were involved in targeting of conservative groups


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    Re: IRS officials in Washington were involved in targeting of conservative groups

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickieboy View Post
    I read it already but it doesn't substantiate your 'number of applications rose drastically after January 21, 2010' assertion. But this figure from the IG report refutes it specific to the subject at hand.

    501c filings by year.jpg

    Note the chart ranges by fiscal year and that 2010 (which ends Sept 30) was actually LOWER than 2009. I will stipulate there was an increase in '11-'12 but as this issue began in March '10, as your link states, one cannot proclaim this targeting began due to a substantial increase in applications...what am I missing?

    As to the 'extended timeline' it was included in the complete IG report...did you read it? Further can you expound further on this 'so much misinformation in the media'?
    The commisioner testified that he was pretty sure that there was a significant increase. Maybe there wasn't? Maybe the numbers are wrong? Unsure..

    As for misinformation, in the audit reports "TeaParty" was shorthand for conservative, at least most of the time. So when they say X number of "Tea Party" Groups, they don't mean that X number of groups were targeted because of their names. It's subtle, but it means that there weren't conservative groups outside of the 70ish reported.

    Also, it's pretty clear that this was something the IRS struggled with. It was department wide. Basically there was a huge influx of conservative groups filing as public welfare groups under the guise of "education". The difference between education and politicking is difficult to define. So they knew that this was a concerted effort to "scam" the IRS, but they couldn't' figure out how to draw a consistent line. Someone devised a number of criteria. One of them was the BOLO with politically insensitive/biased keywords. This is "scandal" one.

    The report doesn't show that conservative groups were targeted unfairly because they were conservative. Less than half of all groups exposed to invasive question were conservative groups.

    As terrible as this sounded at first, it really doesn't seem like it was a serious issue. I mean, here we have 27 groups that had to answer a few too many questions, half of which were conservative. This was scandal two. Contrast that with the banks which incorrectly foreclosed on 4 million homeowners. IDK... the IRS doens't seem so bad.

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