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Thread: Govt obtains wide AP phone records in probe

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    Re: Govt obtains wide AP phone records in probe

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithros View Post
    Are you trying to argue that Tea Party groups are predominantly non-political?
    WaPo explains the issue

    Ruth Marcus: IRS has been too lax on tax-exempt status - The Washington Post

    But back to the scandal hiding in plain sight. In order to qualify for nonprofit, tax-exempt status under Section 501(c)(4) of the tax code, groups must be “operated exclusively for the promotion of social welfare,” defined as activities “promoting in some way the common good and general welfare of the community.”

    However, the IRS has long interpreted “exclusively” to mean “primarily” and allowed 501(c)(4) groups to engage in partisan activity as long as it constitutes less than half their operations. The problem exploded after the Supreme Court’s 2010 ruling in Citizens United, when the number and explicit political involvement of such groups mushroomed.
    Its not about politics, but rather why Tea Party groups are singled out. They are no more or less likely to not qualify for this status than any of the hundreds of liberal or other groups that likewise engage in politics, but still qualified.

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    Re: Govt obtains wide AP phone records in probe

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny5 View Post
    WaPo explains the issue



    Its not about politics, but rather why Tea Party groups are singled out. They are no more or less likely to not qualify for this status than any of the hundreds of liberal or other groups that likewise engage in politics, but still qualified.
    Yes, like "Israel-related groups." Israel-related groups also pointed to IRS scrutiny - Josh Gerstein - POLITICO.com

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    Re: Govt obtains wide AP phone records in probe

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithros View Post
    Are you trying to argue that Tea Party groups are predominantly non-political?
    What difference does it make. Look, if the IRS was pin-pointing all political non-profits at least the administration could claim some sense of consistent policy.

    But, it was clearly a tactic to influence the 2012 elections AFTER thr Dems got their asses handed to them as now we're learning it was done in 2010.

    The Dems attacked the grass roots orginizations og the right, and let their non-profits go right on through.

    The Tea party was never dead, it was just being harrased by the IRS and at the direction of Politicians like Max Baucus, Al Frankin and Chuck Schumer who wrote letters to the IRS in 2010 and 2012 telling them to investigate these groups.

    And ONLY these groups. Heads should not only roll, people should go to prison for violating Americans Civil Rights AND illegally releasing Donors list from right wing non profits to organizations that were left wing.

    So the IRS could HARRASS those people too.

    Try as you may to mitigate the seriosuness of this scandal, I gaurantee it's MUCH deeper than we think it is.

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    Re: Govt obtains wide AP phone records in probe

    Links please?

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    Re: Govt obtains wide AP phone records in probe

    Quote Originally Posted by nota bene View Post
    Exactly. If they were investigating any group that could appear political, then they would be treating everyone equally. Its the targeting of one specific ideology thats the problem. Really this is just another example of our screwed up tax system. There should be no corporate tax, then everyone would be exempt.

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    Re: Govt obtains wide AP phone records in probe

    Quote Originally Posted by trfjr View Post
    go to RealClearPolitics and read todays headlines

    RealClearPolitics - Opinion, News, Analysis, Videos and Polls

    Even the most Obama worshiping koolAid drinking media outlets are turning on him

    Not enough, however. The intrusions into the press are a very serious matter.

    What's funny is that the mainstream media is largely very supportive of sitting governments..of either party. We see this clearly when the military is engaged, and nationalism kicks in. We've got the same issues of media obedience here in Canada.

    So when the news media becomes truly angry...you know the government has finally gone too far even for the courtiers and commissars of the press.
    ...for perhaps the most admirable among the admirable laws of Nature is the survival of the weakest.
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    Re: Govt obtains wide AP phone records in probe

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithros View Post
    Because these were political organizations which should have been filed as non-profit 527's. But instead these groups filed as social welfare 501(c)(4)s.

    By law, social welfare groups cannot be primarily engaged in politics. This was the primary purpose of most of these groups. The reason they didn't file as 527's is so that they could keep their donors secret. We're looking at a gigantic money laundering effort by groups (both left and right) to skirt campaign finance laws. Remember, these groups all had the option to file as 527 PACs. Had they done so, they would have quickly obtained tax exempt status without any additional investigation because they were complying with the law.

    We have a situation in which an office that was used to handling 1200 501(c)(4) applications a year, was suddenly swamped with 3400+ in the aftermath of Citizens United. Most, but not all of these applications were filed by conservative leaning groups and these applications were processed by (I believe) one to three individuals.

    The IRS was 100% wrong to single out groups with the name of tea party, but they were right to investigate these groups. I think the biggest scandal here is that they did not investigate more groups. Any organization with party in their name should almost certainly be a 527, not a 501(c)(4); be it Democratic Party, Republican Party, or Tea Party.
    A.C.O.R.N.

    No scrutiny whatsoever until a two kids and a camera showed up.

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    Re: Govt obtains wide AP phone records in probe

    Quote Originally Posted by Born Free View Post
    What does that matter? Move-on-dot-org is a far left wing political group with IRS tax exempt status
    Move on was a 527, which is what these groups should have filed as.

    501(c)(4)'s are social welfare organizations like the AARP which are allowed to engage in politics, but they cannot be primarily political. These groups filed as 501(c)(4)s because this allows them to keep their donors secret. It's a clear abuse of the tax code. Basically, these groups should have been investigated and should not have been approved.

    However, the criteria used to determine if they should have been investigated should have been balanced. For example, any group with party in the name should have raised a red flag, be it Democrat, Republican, or Tea.

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    Re: Govt obtains wide AP phone records in probe

    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    A.C.O.R.N.

    No scrutiny whatsoever until a two
    kids and a camera showed up.
    Remember Obama distancing himself from that group in 2008 ? People do not realize what kind of influence ACORN had on the Sub-Prime Collapse.

    Arguing for lower lending standards for banks and for lowering the standards for the GSEs that allowed them to buy Sub-Prime loans and in 1997 allowed them to turn those crap loans into securities.

    That One Community Group is to blame for massive lobbying in the early and mid 90s that Clinton apparently agreed with.

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    Re: Govt obtains wide AP phone records in probe

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithros View Post
    Move on was a 527, which is what these groups should have filed as.

    501(c)(4)'s are social welfare organizations like the AARP which are allowed to engage in politics, but they cannot be primarily political. These groups filed as 501(c)(4)s because this allows them to keep their donors secret. It's a clear abuse of the tax code. Basically, these groups should have been investigated and should not have been approved.

    However, the criteria used to determine if they should have been investigated should have been balanced. For example, any group with party in the name should have raised a red flag, be it Democrat, Republican, or Tea.
    Nice try, but guess what not one democrat support group was targeted by the IRS, have you not heard the news, the IRS admits targeting right wing groups.
    Liberals - Punish the Successful, Reward the Unsuccessful
    Liberals - Tax, Borrow, Spend, and Give Free Stuff
    Obama's legacy - President Donald Trump

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