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Gosnell guilty of 3 counts of murder

Dr. Chuckles said:
read the grand jury report. There was specific intent to ignore abortion facilities and deregulate them, because regulation was seen as a deterent to abortion.

It was a policy frst initiated under Ridge that carried over into subsequent administrations
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You won't hear any complaints about me on the first one, really. However, a doctor should take pride in his workspace and, thus, his clinic.
 
fmw said:
There was no need to fix it. I said what meant and meant what I said.
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Yeah, great, you have an opinion on what is "right" and what is "wrong." Woo.
 
zgoldsmith23 said:
You won't hear any complaints about me on the first one, really. However, a doctor should take pride in his workspace and, thus, his clinic.
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understandable being that you're a libertarian. And if it was an across the board approach to deregulation, then I might be more sympathetic to it,. But I fail to see why a place cutting off skin tabs should be burdened with more oversight than a place performing a much more invasive procedures
 
Dr. Chuckles said:
understandable being that you're a libertarian. And if it was an across the board approach to deregulation, then I might be more sympathetic to it,. But I fail to see why a place cutting off skin tabs should be burdened with more oversight than a place performing a much more invasive procedures
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But is regulation the answer?
 
nota bene said:
Regulation would have been the answer in the Gosnell case.
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How so? NB, that's not a very "conservative" opinion granting the government MORE power to branch out. :shrug:
 
zgoldsmith23 said:
How so? NB, that's not a very "conservative" opinion granting the government MORE power to branch out. :shrug:
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I really have no issue with regulation, in general. My concern is more along the lines of limiting it to where necessary. And in situations where services can have such a direct impact on health, and the consumer is so ill equipped to judge the competency of the people and procedures involved, I think it's more than reasonable
 
Dr. Chuckles said:
I really have no issue with regulation, in general. My concern is more along the lines of limiting it to where necessary. And in situations where services can have such a direct impact on health, and the consumer is so ill equipped to judge the competency of the people and procedures involved, I think it's more than reasonable
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Well remove the regulations and the competency could also increase.

fmw said:
Ever since I was about 7 years old.
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Still believe in Santa Clause, too?
 
Whatever happened to people 1) filing complaints when questionable methods are used. 2) Investigation of said complaints. 3) Randomly following up on Drs and their level of care?

Seems to me that this happened - was enable for so long - because no one really seemed to give a crap.

You know - when it comes to having laws and things regarding a sensitive nature - something that walks a fine line and is heavily (HEAVILY regulated) - why isn't there an entity of some form that is constantly investigating? Like Osha?

In fact - why doesn't our nation have any such measures to ensure healthier, safer practices nationwide in regard to any form of health care? By default - we just expect people to file complaints and then go from there? Well - how do you even do that much? Everything falls on the patient unless your a hospital and THEN you're randomly investigated?

I guess I'm really wondering why we don't monitor our healthcare system better to ensure Drs are proper, official, etc etc. And if we do this - why are we doing such a ****ty job?

Who goes to a Dr - and how do you know they're any good? :shrug:
 
Aunt Spiker said:
Whatever happened to people 1) filing complaints when questionable methods are used.
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they were ignored. Even deaths were not investigated. In fact, local doctors also ignores state law on reporting treatment of abortion related injuries and death

because no one really seemed to give a crap.
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No, there was clear intent to avoid the regulation of abortion clinics, because regulation was seen as a deterent

In fact - why doesn't our nation have any such measures to ensure healthier, safer practices nationwide in regard to any form of health care?
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We do, this place was just regulated less than a guy spending his day removing skin tabs, for political reasons
 
Dr. Chuckles said:
they were ignored. Even deaths were not investigated. In fact, local doctors also ignores state law on reporting treatment of abortion related injuries and death



No, there was clear intent to avoid the regulation of abortion clinics, because regulation was seen as a deterent



We do, this place was just regulated less than a guy spending his day removing skin tabs, for political reasons
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Yeah - so - then what? You file complaints - they're ignored/not investigated . . . then what? (of course, the average patient won't even know that much)

Seems to me that the people in charge of such things also should be questioned but very little is said about that.

And so obviously we have an issue, here - the general lack of not giving a crap. People just didn't care enough to do anything.
 
Aunt Spiker said:
didn't care enough to do anything.
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No, they cared enough that they explicitly decided to do nothing, even in the face of patient deaths. For them, there was a clear political goal of taking a full hands off approach to abortion providers
 
zgoldsmith23 said:
Wasn't an insult, sorry if you took it as such.
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You too would consider it insulting if I asked you whether or not you believe in Santa Claus. Give me a break.
 
fmw said:
You too would consider it insulting if I asked you whether or not you believe in Santa Claus. Give me a break.
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Nope. I'd say "No I do not."
 
tererun said:
Unless the women were forced to abort without their consent there should not be murder charges. If he did the abortions at a point when they were not allowed then he should face charges for illegal abortions and not for murder. If he was disposing of the remains wrongfully after the abortion procedure then they should nail him for that. The problem is this is not murder, and because of that may get wiped out in appeals because the courts and the anti-abortion extremists want to go way overboard on charges. Whatever ways he broke the law I am fine with charging him for, but I do not think it is murder to abort a baby for a willing mother.

I also think thwese charges were brought as a political step and as vengeance for the anti-abortion crowd who has no real involvement with any of this. No one cared about those babies lives enough to rush in and pay for the pregnancy and commit to raising them in a loving household to avoid the abortions. The right doesn't even want to pay for WIC, school lunches, or SNAP for poor kids who are not responsible for the positions they are born to. They were unwanted children, and that reality would always haunt them. Maybe the right should be a little more appalled by it's own lack of character when it comes to helping disadvantaged kids born to bad circumstances which pretty much leads to a huge reason why many people chose abortion. This guy broke the law regarding abortions and he deserves to be punished for the laws he broke. Abortion is not murder in this country, and it should not be murder anywhere. Since the other stuff seems to be true i am fine with him losing his medical license and jail time for performing abortions at the wrong time, and also his disposal of biohazard waste in a very improper manner if that is true.
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I am pro-choice, but what this person did was not just an illegal abortion, he performed illegal abortions and then actively killed a baby that may have been viable. That is murder IMHO and he got punished accordingly.
 
nota bene said:
I think you should read the grand jury report and familiarize yourself with its particulars.

http://www.phila.gov/districtattorney/pdfs/grandjurywomensmedical.pdf
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they were abortions, not murders. Though if his negligence lead to the deaths of a mother or two then I could see actually being guilty of murder. Separate is not equal. Since a fetus does not ahve the rights of a human, and it should never have them, it cannot be considered murder or homicide to kill one. but good try for backdooring in precedent. I do hope that attempt doesn't ruin this on appeals for you.
 
Peter King said:
I am pro-choice, but what this person did was not just an illegal abortion, he performed illegal abortions and then actively killed a baby that may have been viable. That is murder IMHO and he got punished accordingly.
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No, they were abortions, though you worked yourself up into an emotional frenzy over it. Seriously, what do you think an abortion is? The mothers are not willing to have or raise the child so they terminate the pregnancy. That will involve an early fetus that is still developing. The fetus doesn't just stop working because the mother chooses to abort. It is removed and that ends whatever cellular functions it has which cause it to be a living part of the mother. What you are claiming is that had he just left the glob on the floor to die it would not be murder, but because he made extra specially sure to help destroy the glob of cells and put a quick end to any functions that might be going on he becomes a murderer. It is an abortion and is not a murder. If you want to have strict and harsh penalties like in murder for abortion doctors who perform later term abortions then make those punishments into law. if you want to lump this in somewhere completely different i hope it gets turned over on appeals because it is a dangerous precedent and gives much more power to the government to try you for crimes you never committed.
 
tererun said:
No, they were abortions, though you worked yourself up into an emotional frenzy over it. Seriously, what do you think an abortion is? The mothers are not willing to have or raise the child so they terminate the pregnancy. That will involve an early fetus that is still developing. The fetus doesn't just stop working because the mother chooses to abort. It is removed and that ends whatever cellular functions it has which cause it to be a living part of the mother. What you are claiming is that had he just left the glob on the floor to die it would not be murder, but because he made extra specially sure to help destroy the glob of cells and put a quick end to any functions that might be going on he becomes a murderer. It is an abortion and is not a murder. If you want to have strict and harsh penalties like in murder for abortion doctors who perform later term abortions then make those punishments into law. if you want to lump this in somewhere completely different i hope it gets turned over on appeals because it is a dangerous precedent and gives much more power to the government to try you for crimes you never committed.
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What emotional frenzy are you talking about? This is my second post about the subject.

I am a great believer in the legality of abortions but abortions at week 24? That is not an abortion, at that time the baby is close to or even totally viable.

I am also a great believer in euthanasia, even in babies if that is what is called for in some cases (only if the parents and doctors agree), but that was not the case here either.

A 24 week old baby is not a glob of cells or a very early fetus with no chance of survival. I do not think abortions should be allowed that late except to save the life or the mother and/or the baby. If there was a living baby, the doctor should have used all possible medical options to save the baby when he took it out of the mother at that late date.

Abortions should be legal and should be safe, but they should never take place so late in the pregnancy. This doctor (from what the evidence has found) ended the lives of some of these babies actively and that is murder/manslaughter and he needs to be punished accordingly (with jail time, still do not believe in the death penalty).
 
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tererun said:
No, they were abortions, though you worked yourself up into an emotional frenzy over it. Seriously, what do you think an abortion is? The mothers are not willing to have or raise the child so they terminate the pregnancy. That will involve an early fetus that is still developing. The fetus doesn't just stop working because the mother chooses to abort. It is removed and that ends whatever cellular functions it has which cause it to be a living part of the mother. What you are claiming is that had he just left the glob on the floor to die it would not be murder, but because he made extra specially sure to help destroy the glob of cells and put a quick end to any functions that might be going on he becomes a murderer. It is an abortion and is not a murder. If you want to have strict and harsh penalties like in murder for abortion doctors who perform later term abortions then make those punishments into law. if you want to lump this in somewhere completely different i hope it gets turned over on appeals because it is a dangerous precedent and gives much more power to the government to try you for crimes you never committed.
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you are one sick and twisted individual does this look like a glob of cells to you

First-pic-of-Lochlan2.jpg

this is what a 25 week old fetus looks like, its a baby it is an alive human being not some dam glob of cell
 
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Your pic shows a 25-week baby who is outside the womb. A live baby just like the live babies, probably hundreds, that Gosnell murdered.
 
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