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Thread: Gates: Some Benghazi critics have "cartoonish" view of military capability

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    Re: Gates: Some Benghazi critics have "cartoonish" view of military capability

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    Robert Gates appeared on CBS's Face The Nation on Sunday and pushed back on the critics of Obama's military. See the video on his appearance at the link .

    Gates, a Republican who was appointed by then-President George W. Bush in 2006 and agreed to stay through more than two years of President Obama's first term, repeatedly declined to criticize the policymakers who devised a response to the September 2012 attack on a U.S. diplomatic facility in Benghazi, Libya, that left four Americans dead, including the U.S. Ambassador to Libya, Chris Stevens.

    "Frankly, had I been in the job at the time, I think my decisions would have been just as theirs were," said Gates, now the chancellor of the College of William and Mary.

    "We don't have a ready force standing by in the Middle East, and so getting somebody there in a timely way would have been very difficult, if not impossible." he explained.

    Suggestions that we could have flown a fighter jet over the attackers to "scare them with the noise or something," Gates said, ignored the "number of surface to air missiles that have disappeared from [former Libyan leader] Qaddafi's arsenals."

    "I would not have approved sending an aircraft, a single aircraft, over Benghazi under those circumstances," he said.

    Another suggestion posed by some critics of the administration, to, as Gates said, "send some small number of special forces or other troops in without knowing what the environment is, without knowing what the threat is, without having any intelligence in terms of what is actually going on on the ground, would have been very dangerous."

    "It's sort of a cartoonish impression of military capabilities and military forces," he said. "The one thing that our forces are noted for is planning and preparation before we send people in harm's way, and there just wasn't time to do that."



    Gates: Some Benghazi critics have "cartoonish" view of military capability - CBS News
    Assistance did arrive on time actually. Their names were Glen Doherty and Tyrone Woods. Apparently Gates and the rest of the sycophants on the Left are unaware that Woods and Doherty were NOT stationed at the embassy. They were stationed at a separate location and rushed to help in defiance of orders.

    This was an 8 hour attack at 2 separate locations. Doherty and Woods managed to rescue dozens and evacuate them to a separate location where they were eventually killed.

    The Obama Administration FAILED to provide them backup within an 8 hour window. A stand down order was given twice that withheld any assistance both Woods and Doherty were requesting on the ground.

    Gates and anyone else defending the Obama Administration here = pathetic, shameless and dishonest

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    Re: Gates: Some Benghazi critics have "cartoonish" view of military capability

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    The problem with that notion, is that military operations are dangerous by their very nature. Special operators join special operations units knowing this and accepting the danger involved in being a member of a special operations team.

    That being said, you don't stand down your forces, because it's dangerous, or because someone might get hurt, or killed.

    No one is under the illusion that our servicemen are super human, or that they have no limitations. However, in the case of Benghazi, there wasn't ANY attempt made to relieve our people that were being attacked on the ground.

    The flaw that exists there, is made up of timidity and indecisiveness; shortcomings that will become a scurge on any fighting force.
    And what if the forces we did send turn up dying due to being outmatched? Kinda like general Custer overestimating the ability a of his seventh cavalry and underestimating the number of enemy's at Little Bighorn.

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    Re: Gates: Some Benghazi critics have "cartoonish" view of military capability

    Quote Originally Posted by Bronson View Post
    Assistance did arrive on time actually. Their names were Glen Doherty and Tyrone Woods. Apparently Gates and the rest of the sycophants on the Left are unaware that Woods and Doherty were NOT stationed at the embassy. They were stationed at a separate location and rushed to help in defiance of orders.

    This was an 8 hour attack at 2 separate locations. Doherty and Woods managed to rescue dozens and evacuate them to a separate location where they were eventually killed.

    The Obama Administration FAILED to provide them backup within an 8 hour window. A stand down order was given twice that withheld any assistance both Woods and Doherty were requesting on the ground.

    Gates and anyone else defending the Obama Administration here = pathetic, shameless and dishonest
    Those two were the closest people there, and they could not save steavens even when they did arive. The only thing that we could is help evacuate CIA building.

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    Re: Gates: Some Benghazi critics have "cartoonish" view of military capability

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    That's fine for him to say that, but it doesn't excuse the State Dept lax preparation at the consulate and the dismissiveness of the ambassadors request to maintain or increase security; nor excuse the indequacy of the building structure itself.
    It wasn't the State Dept responsibility LOL

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/breaki...operation.html

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    Re: Gates: Some Benghazi critics have "cartoonish" view of military capability

    Gates initiates his interview by saying ..."all i know is what iv read in the media, i havent been briefed"......so how in hell does he know what he would have done?..why is he being interviewed if he admits to no knowing the situation?.....as its already been mentioned, how do they know there wasnt enough time to respond?...do they have crystal balls? (ok, lets hear the jokes)........the middle east is a hotbed of terrorist activity and we dont have a reponse team always ready to go anywhere at anytime?.......there is always an aircratft carrier in the Mediterranean

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    Re: Gates: Some Benghazi critics have "cartoonish" view of military capability

    One of the problems we have seen over the past 60 plus years, there have been some Secretary of Defense who go beyond what their job is and micromanage the military. Gates, Rumsfeld, McNamara just to name a few. With Gates, he's not qualified or has any experience in military tactics. Unless he had some stars on his color in the past and knows how to win battles on the battlefield he should leave the tactics to be used to the professionals.

    There's a chain of command to follow. The Cn'C (POTUS) authorizes or issues orders to use the military. As far as he should go, consult the JCOS and issues the orders and say what the "objective" is. In the Benghazi case, save American citizens lives and rescue those Americans from Benghazi.

    The Cn'C follows the chain of command and relays those orders to the Secretary of Defense who relays those orders to the appropriate military command. It's the military commanders (not POTUS or Secretary of Defense) who decides what tactics will be employed to achieve the objective. Even President Eisenhower being a five star general would have stuck to the chain of command and allowed his military commanders to decide what tactics would be used to accomplish the objective.

    It's the military who decides if "Delta Force" should be used or in Marines from the MEU who are part of the Navy ARG should be sent in. Or if a F-16 should be deployed over Benghazi.

    Unfortunately, there was no Navy CSG or ARG/MEU on station as they should have been. The past eleven POTUS always made sure there was a CBG/CSG and an ARG/MEU in the Mediterranean, Obama failed as Cn'C.

    "Delta Force" was supposedly no more than two hours away from Benghazi. It's believed they were the Special Operation Forces who were ordered to deployed and ordered to stand down twice.

    There were military assess in the area and the military received no orders.

    Only the President can order the use of the military and only the President can order a stand down.

    If President Obama took himself out of the chain of command and gave the authority to use the military to Gates, that's dereliction of duty by Obama.

    The only time the U.S. military doesn't need the authorization from POTUS is when a U.S. military installation, ship, aircraft or personnel are under attack.

    The Secretary of Defense is suppose to over see the military services. Make sure there are carriers in their AOR. That the troops are being properly trained to wage war and not sitting in diversity classes.That the military is properly equipped and aren't paying $600 for a toilet seat or $27 per gallon for ship fuel or $57 per gallon for JP-8 jet fuel.

    Gates was a yes man just like Hagel is.

    When the military needs to be deployed, the POTUS is just suppose to tell them what the objective is, the U.S. military will take it from there.

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    Re: Gates: Some Benghazi critics have "cartoonish" view of military capability

    Quote Originally Posted by fmw View Post
    So we have a former secretary of defense who wouldn't send help to a distressed foreigh mission because it would have been dangerous? You're kidding. Military operations can be dangerous? Glad he's no longer running the Pentagon.
    Secretary Gates' point was that military forces cannot be committed into a situation when the environmental situation is unknown. If, for example, a small, lightly-armed force is inserted into a situation in which it is out-manned and out-gunned, the mission would very likely be a failure and the resulting casualties would have been unnecessary. His approach is a prudent and responsible one.

    Finally, he was the Secretary of Defense who presided over the turnaround in the military situation in Iraq. He had inherited that bad situation that was largely the result of planning based on rosy assumptions (no insurgency, less need for manpower, etc.).

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    Re: Gates: Some Benghazi critics have "cartoonish" view of military capability

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    Secretary Gates' point was that military forces cannot be committed into a situation when the environmental situation is unknown. If, for example, a small, lightly-armed force is inserted into a situation in which it is out-manned and out-gunned, the mission would very likely be a failure and the resulting casualties would have been unnecessary. His approach is a prudent and responsible one.

    Finally, he was the Secretary of Defense who presided over the turnaround in the military situation in Iraq. He had inherited that bad situation that was largely the result of planning based on rosy assumptions (no insurgency, less need for manpower, etc.).
    I wonder why he felt it necessary to say anything at all. Perhaps he feels that, although his statements are true, that there is indeed something inside the DoD that should be looked at and since the current investigations were not focused in that direction, his statement acts as a signal for someone to start looking in that direction.
    Only a fool measures equality by results and not opportunities.

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    Re: Gates: Some Benghazi critics have "cartoonish" view of military capability

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Bolded statement: If what I recall is true, that the attack transpired over four or five hours, I find his statement not only unbelievable, but a lie.

    If we don't have a "ready force" standing by in the Middle East? Where they hell do we have a ready force?
    I believe the Secretary was referring to a force in close enough proximity to Libya to have been effective. We have a major naval base in Bahrain, but that's some 2,000 miles away. If I'm not mistaken, the closest U.S. air base is in Italy.

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    Re: Gates: Some Benghazi critics have "cartoonish" view of military capability

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    Secretary Gates' point was that military forces cannot be committed into a situation when the environmental situation is unknown. If, for example, a small, lightly-armed force is inserted into a situation in which it is out-manned and out-gunned, the mission would very likely be a failure and the resulting casualties would have been unnecessary. His approach is a prudent and responsible one.
    The situation was less "unknown" than you might think - we had surveillance drones overhead watching the thing develop for hours.

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