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Thread: White House holds OFF-THE-RECORD briefing with reporters on Benghazi

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    Re: White House holds OFF-THE-RECORD briefing with reporters on Benghazi

    Quote Originally Posted by humbolt View Post
    Bubba, just because some fool posts a particular spin redolent with falsities does not require me to address them any more than I'm required to address this mess above. I've already outlined your problem, and it starts with lying. I fully expect that your hysteria is going to grow exponentially as the truth slowly dribbles out. Even the New Yorker (!) has called Carney a liar. Your post proves where the partisanship resides in this issue, and it's going to be your undoing in the end. Truth is not a partisan issue.
    Thanks for the New Yorker heads-up, and here's the link: Spinning Benghazi: The C.I.A.'s Talking-Point Edits : The New Yorker

    Let's see who reads this.

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    Re: White House holds OFF-THE-RECORD briefing with reporters on Benghazi

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    The Administration really should have come clean on Day One, and not played PC politics with this.
    Agreed. If they did just that the whole thing would be almost forgotten by now and I don't believe it would have had any ill effect on his campaign.
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    Re: White House holds OFF-THE-RECORD briefing with reporters on Benghazi

    That's what I've been saying--that all they had to do was be forthright.

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    Re: White House holds OFF-THE-RECORD briefing with reporters on Benghazi

    Quote Originally Posted by nota bene View Post
    Thanks for the New Yorker heads-up, and here's the link: Spinning Benghazi: The C.I.A.'s Talking-Point Edits : The New Yorker

    Let's see who reads this.
    Good luck with getting any of the spinners to read anything like that. They're still busy saying no one anywhere was ordered to stand down. Nobody was available. The cat ate all the ammo. There was no military presence anywhere within 10,000 miles. Everybody was dead. It was Mission Impossible. Can you imagine what they'd say if someone told them we have to invade Europe by establishing a beach head in a place like Normandy under heavy fire from a well entrenched and equipped army? We'd all be speaking German without ever having lifted a finger to stop it.

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    Re: White House holds OFF-THE-RECORD briefing with reporters on Benghazi

    Quote Originally Posted by humbolt View Post
    Good luck with getting any of the spinners to read anything like that. They're still busy saying no one anywhere was ordered to stand down. Nobody was available. The cat ate all the ammo. There was no military presence anywhere within 10,000 miles. Everybody was dead. It was Mission Impossible. Can you imagine what they'd say if someone told them we have to invade Europe by establishing a beach head in a place like Normandy under heavy fire from a well entrenched and equipped army? We'd all be speaking German without ever having lifted a finger to stop it.
    Run to the window, humbolt--your chance is now to see flying pigs. http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/12/op...ital.html?_r=0

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    Re: White House holds OFF-THE-RECORD briefing with reporters on Benghazi

    Quote Originally Posted by nota bene View Post
    Run to the window, humbolt--your chance is now to see flying pigs. http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/12/op...ital.html?_r=0
    By golly, you're right. Thanks. Pigs can fly.

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    Re: White House holds OFF-THE-RECORD briefing with reporters on Benghazi

    Quote Originally Posted by humbolt View Post
    Lt. Col. Gibson was in Tripoli with a team ready to go at the time.
    Go where? He would not have gotten there in time to save Smith or Stevens, and there was a team which arrived in Benghazi at around 11:30 (I believe it was).

    This is not idle speculation from a Monday morning quarterback painting a fantasy which suits your argument.
    But the idea them being there making a difference is, even if the logistics had been perfect. As the article I posted showed.

    With your self-proclaimed fondness for logic and common sense, one would think you would choose to start there with the people actually involved in the events. You know - the ones who were prepared to do what you say could not be done.
    I don't understand...I'm prepared to go to work tomorrow to win a million dollars. If I'm prepared to do that, does it make it true?

    Again, I point you back to the common sense article I posted earlier. The fact you continue refusing to acknowledge it shows just how uninterested you are in discussing the safety of Americans and how interested you are in making political attacks.

    Let's get back to what's important. Let's focus on making sure other forces around the world are safe. We know it was not a video protest, but a coordinated attack by our enemy. We know preparation at the consulate was inadequate. We know the Benghazi location was being used as a CIA base. We know help was sent, multiple times. We know NOTHING could have saved Smith or Stevens once the attack started. We know that mortar fire killed Woods and Doherty, and more troops at the annex would not have changed a thing. We know the situation developed rapidly and while we now have the hindsight of 20/20, those who were making the decisions in real time did not. We know there was no secure landing area, we know our knowledge of the situation was limited and we know four Americans were killed.

    We know after this happened a video was implicated as the reason. We know the video was not to blame. We know talking points were changed multiple times before the video was blamed. We know Republicans were seeking to politicize the deaths of four Americans to have a better chance to win the Presidency, and we know the Democrats were seeking to downplay the attack to have a better chance to keep the Presidency. We know failures in the system were there and we know recommendations to fix them were made.

    Here's what we don't know. We don't know why the video was initially blamed, though I suspect it had a lot to do with protecting the intelligence officers which were in Benghazi at the time of the attack or perhaps even trying to protect the fact we had CIA there. We don't know why the talking points changed, though quite a bit of evidence now suggests it was because of a pissing match between the State Department and the CIA. But really, in the words of Clinton, what difference does it make? Does knowing why the video was blamed bring back those four Americans? Does it put Romney in the White House? Does knowing why the talking points changed protect other ambassadors and consulates/embassies around the world?

    There's one last thing we don't know. We don't know how much improvement has been made in protecting our other personnel. Why don't we know? Because it's not being asked. Of the three "major" things (and I use the word major liberally, because only one of these matter), this is the only one which has any effect on anything. So let's spend more time worrying about this one, than worrying about waste of time political attacks.

    I've seen over the last couple of days the IRS targeted Tea Party applications for tax-exempt status. Maybe now that Republicans have a new chew toy, we can finally end the Benghazi witch hunt and focus on what's important, which is the best possible security of our forces around the world.

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    Re: White House holds OFF-THE-RECORD briefing with reporters on Benghazi

    Quote Originally Posted by Slyfox696 View Post
    Go where? He would not have gotten there in time to save Smith or Stevens, and there was a team which arrived in Benghazi at around 11:30 (I believe it was).

    But the idea them being there making a difference is, even if the logistics had been perfect. As the article I posted showed.

    I don't understand...I'm prepared to go to work tomorrow to win a million dollars. If I'm prepared to do that, does it make it true?

    Again, I point you back to the common sense article I posted earlier. The fact you continue refusing to acknowledge it shows just how uninterested you are in discussing the safety of Americans and how interested you are in making political attacks.

    Let's get back to what's important. Let's focus on making sure other forces around the world are safe. We know it was not a video protest, but a coordinated attack by our enemy. We know preparation at the consulate was inadequate. We know the Benghazi location was being used as a CIA base. We know help was sent, multiple times. We know NOTHING could have saved Smith or Stevens once the attack started. We know that mortar fire killed Woods and Doherty, and more troops at the annex would not have changed a thing. We know the situation developed rapidly and while we now have the hindsight of 20/20, those who were making the decisions in real time did not. We know there was no secure landing area, we know our knowledge of the situation was limited and we know four Americans were killed.

    We know after this happened a video was implicated as the reason. We know the video was not to blame. We know talking points were changed multiple times before the video was blamed. We know Republicans were seeking to politicize the deaths of four Americans to have a better chance to win the Presidency, and we know the Democrats were seeking to downplay the attack to have a better chance to keep the Presidency. We know failures in the system were there and we know recommendations to fix them were made.

    Here's what we don't know. We don't know why the video was initially blamed, though I suspect it had a lot to do with protecting the intelligence officers which were in Benghazi at the time of the attack or perhaps even trying to protect the fact we had CIA there. We don't know why the talking points changed, though quite a bit of evidence now suggests it was because of a pissing match between the State Department and the CIA. But really, in the words of Clinton, what difference does it make? Does knowing why the video was blamed bring back those four Americans? Does it put Romney in the White House? Does knowing why the talking points changed protect other ambassadors and consulates/embassies around the world?

    There's one last thing we don't know. We don't know how much improvement has been made in protecting our other personnel. Why don't we know? Because it's not being asked. Of the three "major" things (and I use the word major liberally, because only one of these matter), this is the only one which has any effect on anything. So let's spend more time worrying about this one, than worrying about waste of time political attacks.

    I've seen over the last couple of days the IRS targeted Tea Party applications for tax-exempt status. Maybe now that Republicans have a new chew toy, we can finally end the Benghazi witch hunt and focus on what's important, which is the best possible security of our forces around the world.
    Ah. It's the idea that there's some kind of political attack that's really bothering you. I understand your desire to move on from this issue. There may not have been any way to avoid the deaths that occurred in Benghazi under the circumstances. I don't know. You don't either, though you have spent a lot of bandwidth in the effort to claim you do. I do know that most of us refuse to accept the notion that because the situation looked dire, nothing whatever should be done. Sorry. That doesn't fly. I have served overseas for our country, and such a refusal to even mount an effort is - I don't even have the words to express my disgust. You should realize by now that conservatives certainly didn't make this a political issue. The Obama administration did the minute they started playing around with talking points. That republicans have picked up the ball is something you ought to have expected, and the fact that Hillary is involved is the price she pays for playing that game in Benghazi to start with. And she's getting off easy. Some of the people involved didn't survive. That facility is American soil. The people killed were Americans serving their country. They deserve more than a pack of lies told by politicians motived by their own ambition. If you can't see that, there's no point in continuing to discuss the issue.

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    Re: White House holds OFF-THE-RECORD briefing with reporters on Benghazi

    Quote Originally Posted by humbolt View Post
    It's the idea that there's some kind of political attack that's really bothering you.
    Yes. Politics is getting in the way of productivity. I cannot believe there are not better uses of our Senators' time than a witch hunt which does nothing to protect Americans.

    There may not have been any way to avoid the deaths that occurred in Benghazi under the circumstances. I don't know. You don't either, though you have spent a lot of bandwidth in the effort to claim you do.
    Unless you want to claim Americans wanted other Americans to die, it's a pretty safe bet no decision was made without the best of intentions.

    I do know that most of us refuse to accept the notion that because the situation looked dire, nothing whatever should be done. Sorry. That doesn't fly.
    Yes, it does, to anyone with common sense. Committing more lives to a situation deemed to be impossible to save is stupid, and goes against a history's worth of military decisions. If we had rushed into a situation we didn't know anything about, and 20 additional soldiers had died, are you telling me that's BETTER than what happened? That would be far worse.

    The problems with this situation are the actions, or better yet inactions, before the attack. After the attack, I cannot imagine anyone wanted those 4 Americans to die. So unless you are claiming those with power wanted Americans to die, you really do not have a point any more.

    I have served overseas for our country, and such a refusal to even mount an effort is - I don't even have the words to express my disgust.
    No one cares about your disgust. Your disgust is irrelevant to the truth.

    You should realize by now that conservatives certainly didn't make this a political issue.
    You're joking right? Do I need to remind you of Romney's tweet immediately after? Do I need to again point out how Republicans are not doing ANYTHING to ensure the safety of other Americans in their witch hunt to discredit the Democrats?

    You seem all gung-ho about keeping people who realistically had little chance of safety safe, and yet now when we actually DO have a chance to help keep Americans safe, you're not interested. Spare me your disgust on your provably false claim we didn't send help, and reapply it to the fact no one in Congress seems to be interested in making sure the breakdowns which happened previously do not happen again.

    They deserve more than a pack of lies told by politicians motived by their own ambition. If you can't see that, there's no point in continuing to discuss the issue.
    There isn't any point in you continuing this discussion. You've lied about your own words. You've been proven false on your claim no help was sent. You claimed conservatives didn't make this a political issue when Romney was the very first person to make this a political issue. You want to put more lives in danger to save people who were already dead. And you claim disgust at not helping Americans, and yet, you are constantly ignoring my calls for Senators to focus on making sure Americans around the world are as secure as possible.

    You're only interested in this for the same reason Republicans are...pure political politics. That's it. The facts and evidence are against you in nearly every way and you STILL want to focus on something which has already been proven false, instead of helping other Americans who are alive and serving this country.

    Give up the political games. Let's focus on what's important. What's important is that four Americans died because of improper preparation. Let's spend our time making sure that doesn't happen again.

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    Re: White House holds OFF-THE-RECORD briefing with reporters on Benghazi

    Quote Originally Posted by Slyfox696 View Post
    So a Republican made up a story which works against them? What exactly are you trying to say here?

    Uh, no, I'm asking you to read the article from a former Marine officer, and special operations team leader, who provided a timeline of the event and why your argument was not possible.

    Are you doing it under heavy fire? Do you know if your airport in LA is secure? Do you have to fuel and plan attacks? Do you need to get permission from Los Angeles before you do? Do you have to assess where you'll land, how you'll land and how you'll make it to an area under attack?

    The fact you think going into to a fluid situation is the same as getting on civilian aircraft shows you've not really thought this through.

    Yes, it's awful when people use logic and common sense to get in the way of partisan political attacks. I can't help but notice you've not ONCE addressed the article I posted earlier, and your entire argument is now based around the fact you apparently know more than everyone else. Read the article, pay attention to the details and then get back to me.

    It is when that's not the question you asked. You asked this question:

    "Did you figure out that part of the Meeting being with only certain media sources?"

    So now you're upset I didn't answer a question you didn't ask?

    Yes, it does. The implication was that the White House and the "liberal media" were in cahoots in trying to cover this story up. The presence of right leaning news sources, which do not have an interest in covering anything up when it deals with the President, shows there was no conspiracy at the meeting. Thus, as for why the certain news agencies were chosen, the answer was probably far more innocuous than implied and you'd have to ask the White House why.

    This really isn't difficult.


    I have no idea what you're talking about. All you ever do is post a bunch of articles, with an incredibly annoying amount of colorization and bolding which distracts from any argument being made. I was replying to the implication this was a conspiracy between the White House and the media. Perhaps you should do a better job following along?

    I'm a fool because I'm providing actual facts and evidence you don't even attempt to deny? That doesn't begin to make sense. The only thing foolish in this world is to stubbornly stick to your beliefs despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary. I once believed the attack was because of a protest to a video gone wrong. The overwhelming evidence told us that was false and I no longer believe it. You believe no help was sent and you believe some Hollywood style rescue was possible to MAYBE save...someone. The evidence overwhelmingly tells us you are wrong...are you going to continue sticking to your position?

    Not quite.....the Implications was that they didn't invite all of the media. Also.....I would have to agree with you that you don't know what your talking about.

    You must have been confused with the Prof and I. As I have been posting up the ones which showed that Team Obama Lied, Falsified info, changed their Narrative, and when they were the Inept fools like that they are and have showed themselves to be.

    Course as usual.....while proving those like yourself. Don't have a clue as to what they are talking about. Either with those here in the US over Benghazi or with those in Libya.

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