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BBC, After Benghazi revelations, heads will roll

Hopefully, the "youtube video" BS was about chasing down the perpetrators before they knew that we knew.

So we put an American citizen in jail and is still in jail and will need protection for the rest of his life all for exercising his 1st amendment right for an investigation tactic?
 
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Kennedy had plenty of plans about assassinating Castro.

The point is if we just went blowing things up because we felt like it, we wouldn't be here. And if you think diplomacy was in no way involved in diffusing the Cuban Missile Crisis, consider this:

Napalming a block of terrorists is NOT "blowing **** up."

Kennedy was a highly medicated nut at best that was obsessed with ending communism. Which I find highly entertaining considering the majority of progressives today view Kennedy as a God but are sympathetic to communism/socialism.

The Cuban Missile Crisis, 1962: Anatomy of a Controversey


If JFK was the president today progressives would label him a "promiscuous paranoid drug addicted neo-con."
 
So we put an innocent American citizen jail and is still in jail and will need protection for the rest of his life all for exercising his 1st amendment right for an investigation tactic?

I'm just saying that it's possible that the State Department deliberately went with the "youtube" video deal in order to catch up with the perps before the perps knew we were on to them. Is that likely? No, but it's more pleasing than the other explanations I've heard.

Regarding the guy who was arrested for that video, he was arrested on other charges (an outstanding warrant) and I'm pretty sure everyone now knows that he had nothing to do with Libya.
 
Actually it is a very good thing we didn't invade Cuba back in 1962 during the missile crisis. Unknow to us, the USSR also had sent tactical Nukes which were armed and ready to repel any invasion and WWIII would have followed. Khrushchev got what he wanted from the affair, Atlas missiles out of Turkey although that part of the deal was kept quite and he removed the missiles from Cuba to include the TacNukes which also was kept secret for a guarantee from JFK that the U.S. would never invade Cuba.

Absolutely.... I know all about it...

I would call Turkey a consolation prize after Khrushchev was caught attempting to flank...

The cold war was a chess match, however it just lasted 35-40 years.
 
WHAT????? The Cuban Missile Crisis wasn't ended due to "diplomacy" - we caught Russia red handed setting up nuclear bases in Cuba via U2 spy plane photos, drilled them about them while they denied it entirely then after they did we presented them with the photos and made the USSR look like total jackasses in front of the world....

Humility and deception is what ceased the Cuban missile crisis - no diplomacy involved.

Kennedy would have blown Cuba off the map if he could -- yeah, go read about all his loony ideas on how to invade Cuba, attack Cuba, assassinate Castro etc.... Kennedy was hardly diplomatic.

As far as the USSR, they had no desire to bomb us or attack us after the Cuban Missile Crisis -- after that both sides were weary about each others intentions.

There was secret diplomacy that took place during the Cuban Missile Crisis.

NATO has missiles in Turkey.

The Soviets wanted the NATO missiles removed from Turkey.

Soviets put missiles in Cuba.

Soviets told Robert Kennedy that if NATO removes missiles from Turkey, they will remove missiles from Cuba.

Soviets agree to keep this secret to save JFK from looking weak.

This was kept secret from the American people for twenty years.

>" Over the years, many scholars of the Cuban Missile Crisis came strongly to suspect that Robert Kennedy had, in fact, relayed a pledge from his brother to take out the Jupiters from Turkey in exchange for the Soviet removal of nuclear missiles from Cuba, so long as Moscow kept the swap secret; yet senior former Kennedy Administration officials, such as then-National Security Advisor McGeorge Bundy and then-Secretary of State Dean Rusk, continued to insist that RFK had passed on no more than an informal assurance rather than an explicit promise or agreement.

The first authoritative admission on the U.S. side that the Jupiters had actually been part of a "deal" came at a conference in Moscow in January 1989, after glasnost had led Soviet (and then Cuban) former officials to participate in international scholarly efforts to reconstruct and assess the history of the crisis. At that meeting, former Kennedy speechwriter Theodore Sorensen (and the uncredited editor of Thirteen Days) admitted, after prodding from Dobrynin, that he had taken it upon himself to edit out a "very explicit" reference to the inclusion of the Jupiters in the final deal to settle the crisis. "< -> The Cuban Missile Crisis, 1962: Anatomy of a Controversey

Let me know if you want to hear the truth about the Bay Of Pigs fiasco.
 
Keeping the premises safe was the responsibility of the Libyans

http://untreaty.un.org/ilc/texts/instruments/english/conventions/9_1_1961.pdf

No, but hell know, the responsibility is OUR'S, where did you ever get the idea that Libya was capable of anything. If Hillery thought Libya was capable of providing security of our embassy, she is far more stupid that I thought she was. Do you recall any Libya security personal killed in the attack? Who was our ambassador screaming at for more security, let me remind you. It was stupid Hillery's department.

You can keep making excuses all you want to try and shore up stupidity, ignorance, incompetence, political coverup for self gain, and all the rest but it does not fly. Obama and his administration is a sham, an embarrassment to this country, and worse his lack of regard that we have our men and woman's back who are in arms way. He is a disgrace to this country.
 
There was secret diplomacy that took place during the Cuban Missile Crisis.

NATO has missiles in Turkey.

The Soviets wanted the NATO missiles removed from Turkey.

Soviets put missiles in Cuba.

Soviets told Robert Kennedy that if NATO removes missiles from Turkey, they will remove missiles from Cuba.

Soviets agree to keep this secret to save JFK from looking weak.

This was kept secret from the American people for twenty years.

>" Over the years, many scholars of the Cuban Missile Crisis came strongly to suspect that Robert Kennedy had, in fact, relayed a pledge from his brother to take out the Jupiters from Turkey in exchange for the Soviet removal of nuclear missiles from Cuba, so long as Moscow kept the swap secret; yet senior former Kennedy Administration officials, such as then-National Security Advisor McGeorge Bundy and then-Secretary of State Dean Rusk, continued to insist that RFK had passed on no more than an informal assurance rather than an explicit promise or agreement.

The first authoritative admission on the U.S. side that the Jupiters had actually been part of a "deal" came at a conference in Moscow in January 1989, after glasnost had led Soviet (and then Cuban) former officials to participate in international scholarly efforts to reconstruct and assess the history of the crisis. At that meeting, former Kennedy speechwriter Theodore Sorensen (and the uncredited editor of Thirteen Days) admitted, after prodding from Dobrynin, that he had taken it upon himself to edit out a "very explicit" reference to the inclusion of the Jupiters in the final deal to settle the crisis. "< -> The Cuban Missile Crisis, 1962: Anatomy of a Controversey

Let me know if you want to hear the truth about the Bay Of Pigs fiasco.

What military in their right mind would go from the USSR across the Atlantic and attempt to put nuclear silos in Cuba? This was an attempted flank - not an attempt to be diplomatic with aggression. The USSR and Khrushchev highly underrated the our capabilities.

There was nothing diplomatic about the Cuban Missile Crisis considering nothing was talked out and it was nothing but a cat and muse game..

Bay of Pigs??? Jeez... That epic failure.

Probably the biggest military blunder in the 20th century.

Please tell me about the Bay of Pigs.
 
If JFK was the president today progressives would label him a "promiscuous paranoid drug addicted neo-con."[/QUOTE]
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Nah....they'd call him Rush Limbaugh.
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I am John Galt.
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No you're not.
Your posts are much too concise.
If you were Galt, you'd ramble on endlessly until the mods cut you off.
Besides, shouldn't you be designing some sort of revolutionary engine rather than conversing with internet rabble?
 
Ambassadors know that it can be risky, especially in a place like Libya.

especially under this secretary of state

At the same hearing, Republican members asked Hicks and Eric Nordstrom, who had been the regional security officer (the State Department’s top onsite security official) at the U.S. Embassy in Libya until July 26, 2012, whether the State Department;s Benghazi compound, where Amb. Stevens was killed on Sept. 1, 2012, met the department’s Overseas Security Policy Board (OSBP) standards. Nordstrom noted that they did not meet those standards or the standards of the Secure Embassy Construction and Counterterrorism Act of 1999 (SECCA)—and that only Secretary Clinton had the authority to send diplomats to a facility that did not meet the SECCA standards.

“Mr. Hicks, when you arrived in July, did the facilities of Benghazi meet the minimum OSPB security standards set by the State Department?” asked Rep. Lankford.

“According to the Regional Security Officer at the time in Tripoli, John Martinec, they did not,” said Hicks.

“Do you think they were close to meeting the standards?” Rep. Lankford asked Hicks about both the Tripoli embassy and the Benghazi facility.

“No, sir,” said Hicks.

“Now, Mr. Nordstrom, same thing to you,” said Rep. Gowdy. “And if I'm unfair in my characterization, you need to correct me. I thought I understood your testimony to be that Secretary Clinton alone was able to approve facilities that were below specs.”

“That's correct--part of the specs; certain, certain, there's two categories, SECCA and OSPB. She can--is the only one that can authorize waivers for SECCA. In this case, both apply because we didn't meet either.”

Rep. Gowdy said: “So, we are able to show that in part he went to Benghazi because of Secretary Clinton. In part, Benghazi was still open despite the fact it was below specs because of Secretary Clinton.”

When Clinton visited Libya in October 2011, according to the State Department’s Bureau of Diplomatic Security, the U.S. Defense Department prepositioned assets off the coast of Libya in case it needed to rescue her.

Testimony: Stevens Sent to Unsafe Compound | CNS News
 
Hopefully, the "youtube video" BS was about chasing down the perpetrators before they knew that we knew.
If that was the plan then chalk up another in a long line of failed plans because the perps are still running free.
 
What military in their right mind would go from the USSR across the Atlantic and attempt to put nuclear silos in Cuba? This was an attempted flank - not an attempt to be diplomatic with aggression. The USSR and Khrushchev highly underrated the our capabilities.

There was nothing diplomatic about the Cuban Missile Crisis considering nothing was talked out and it was nothing but a cat and muse game..

Bay of Pigs??? Jeez... That epic failure.

Probably the biggest military blunder in the 20th century.

Please tell me about the Bay of Pigs.

I'm curious, where did you get your information on the Cuban Missile Crisis? Your account is one I cannot recognize.

Diplomatic cables between the two countries is what ended the crisis. Restraint and a cool head under pressure, particularly from Kennedy, is what kept this from escalating to a nightmarish nuclear exchange. The bay of pigs was the CIA's fumble, which led to Kennedy criticizing them and expressing his desire to end the program which (conspiracy) may have led to his assassination.
 
State department spokesperson Victoria Nuland is directly implicated, and the fingerprints of senior White House aides Ben Rhodes and Jay Carney are there as well

david rhodes is the brother of white house national security adviser for communications ben rhodes

david rhodes is the president of cbs news

David Rhodes - CBS News

yes, ben rhodes' fingerprints on the doctored and dishonest cia advisory have been apparent since stephen hayes at the neocon weekly standard exposed the frantic email chain (which evil darrell issa holds) between foggy bottom, the fbi, cia, nsc, odni and "seniors at the white house" last week in the frantic late evening hours before susan-rice-sunday

so why is cbs leaning so hard on sharyl attkisson?

Sharyl Attkisson of CBS News, a persistent voice of media skepticism on Benghazi - The Washington Post

ask the brothers rhodes

the coverup is now attempting to extend BEYOND this woebegone and over-worried white house

i've been very familiar with ms attkisson since her excellent and exclusive work on fast and furious, another sickening scandal and coverup

seeya at evil issa's inquiries over the next, oh, 18 months or so

they're gonna be most informative

party on, progressives
 
If that was the plan then chalk up another in a long line of failed plans because the perps are still running free.

We don't know that for sure, respecting top level security clearance. The chase is always on, and I don't think we get to see everything.
 
It's about diplomacy. If we landed a huge invasion force to save 4 people, a lot more than 4 people would have died. Ambassadors know that it can be risky, especially in a place like Libya.

President Margarief (of Libya) came out openly and said it was a terrorist attack that had "nothing to do with the video."

He did before our own president, in fact.

Diplomacy was damaged by throwing the Libyan President under the bus, and making up a lie about the video.

There is no way in hell "diplomacy" was on the minds of those who changed the talking points.
 
So it's a long standing operational policy of the State Department. Fine, why would Obama or Clinton be crucified for following the policies of their predecessors?

I think it is because of the times we are in. There was a time when politics ended at the waters edge. Even with today's very partisan divide, I wonder if much would have been made of it if the administration came right out to begin with and said it was a terrorist attack. That would have taken the notion of cover up away.

As for the lax security or the failure to provide a relief force, it very well could be there was no good choices. Sending in a 4 man SF team from Tripoli via a Libyan aircraft against who really knew at the time the strength of the opposition may have been considered putting more people in harms way and not worth the little help they could have provided. I do not know what they were armed with or much else about them. I do not have the answers.

Then too some diplomats are very strong headed. If given advance notice that Benghazi might be teeming with the possibility of terrorist or terrorist threats, why didn't Stevens postpone the visit.

I will sit back and watch, listen and see what comes of this. Each situation is different, perhaps the reason for the first story about the Video is that State never took the threats serious enough. State has done this in the past and almost always got away with it. It is way to early, for me anyway to make a judgement call on this. I am just like everyone else, I sometimes put forth a theory, a supposition, but I wouldn't be surprise if State, the high, high up turned down the request for additional security because their job is diplomacy and they didn't want the military around to interfer with that diplomacy or the relations with Libya.

Time will tell.
 
Absolutely.... I know all about it...

I would call Turkey a consolation prize after Khrushchev was caught attempting to flank...

The cold war was a chess match, however it just lasted 35-40 years.

Yep, a deadly serious chess match and at time using other countries as proxy wars instead of the big WWIII. Thank god for proxy wars.
 
BBC News - After Benghazi revelations, heads will roll

"This is the first hard evidence that the state department did ask for changes to the CIA's original assessment.

Specifically, they wanted references to previous warnings deleted and this sentence removed: "We do know that Islamic extremists with ties to al-Qa'ida participated in the attack."

There's little doubt in my mind that this will haunt Hillary Clinton if she decides to run for president, unless she executes some pretty fancy footwork.

State department spokesperson Victoria Nuland is directly implicated, and the fingerprints of senior White House aides Ben Rhodes and Jay Carney are there as well."


so even foreign news organizations are coming around and realizing it is a cover up and apologizing for dismissing it at first

Agreed.
There was WH Press Secretary Jay Carney, in his defensive crouch for what must have seemed to him like hours, trying in vain to flog the line that despite twelve revisions to the original Benghazi talking points, each making them less accurate, that the administration had merely accepted the intelligence community's view. Nothing to see here, folks. Move along. Except that the White House press corps, usually compliant lap dogs for the BHO crowd, weren't buying. In fact, they came pretty close to calling Jay a liar, and obviously smell blood in the water.

That was the expected trouble, but out of left field came the unexpected haymaker: the IRS, in fine Nixonian fashion, had been illegally hounding BHO's political opponents. That they chose this day to confess publicly, and add to Jay's worst day ever, was almost enough to make you believe in karma.

An administration that has lived by spin and a docile press corps may have seen their luck run out today. And Hillary's 2016 plans have taken a shot below the waterline too. Let's see whether the BHO gang tries to save themselves by pointing at Hillary.:shock:
 
Agreed.
There was WH Press Secretary Jay Carney, in his defensive crouch for what must have seemed to him like hours, trying in vain to flog the line that despite twelve revisions to the original Benghazi talking points, each making them less accurate, that the administration had merely accepted the intelligence community's view. Nothing to see here, folks. Move along. Except that the White House press corps, usually compliant lap dogs for the BHO crowd, weren't buying. In fact, they came pretty close to calling Jay a liar, and obviously smell blood in the water.

That was the expected trouble, but out of left field came the unexpected haymaker: the IRS, in fine Nixonian fashion, had been illegally hounding BHO's political opponents. That they chose this day to confess publicly, and add to Jay's worst day ever, was almost enough to make you believe in karma.

An administration that has lived by spin and a docile press corps may have seen their luck run out today. And Hillary's 2016 plans have taken a shot below the waterline too. Let's see whether the BHO gang tries to save themselves by pointing at Hillary.:shock:

Well, Jay is the President's representative. Let's see how this plays out. Good evening 2m...
 
What military in their right mind would go from the USSR across the Atlantic and attempt to put nuclear silos in Cuba? This was an attempted flank - not an attempt to be diplomatic with aggression. The USSR and Khrushchev highly underrated the our capabilities.

There was nothing diplomatic about the Cuban Missile Crisis considering nothing was talked out and it was nothing but a cat and muse game..

Bay of Pigs??? Jeez... That epic failure.

Probably the biggest military blunder in the 20th century.

Please tell me about the Bay of Pigs.

This thread isn't about the mistakes or blunders and the legacy of JFK, it's about an incompetent President who occupies the White House today.

But there were no missile silos in Cuba. The Soviet missiles were not ICBM but intermediate range missiles.

It was RFK who negotiated with the Soviets and JFK agreed to remove NATO's missiles from Turkey when the Soviets removed their missiles from Cuba.

The myth of the Bay of Pigs was that Eisenhower signed off on the CIA mission. Eisenhower never signed off on the Bay of Pigs. On the day of JFK inauguration Eisenhower informed JFK of the CIA Bay of Pigs mission. Eisenhower warned JFK not to sign off on the mission until there's a popular Cuban government that was in exile. And if he does sign off on the mission make sure the the invasion forces control the air space over the Bay of Pigs and that the U.S. military must provide close air support for the invading forces. JFK refused to do none of that but still signed off on the mission.

You are aware that JFK use to call Eisenhower for advice on numerous occasions. But JFK never acted on Eisenhower's advice and warnings and would ignore Eisenhower and instead listen to his Harvard buddies he surrounded himself with known as the "Young and Brightest."

One of those warning was when Eisenhower warned JFK not to get involved with the Diem regime in the RVN. That Diem was to corrupt. He also warned JFK if he's going to make a stand against Communist expansion in South East Asia not to make the stand at the 17th parallel. That Laos is where you have to make your stand, not in Vietnam.

JFK as usual ignored Eisenhower's advice and warnings and signed of on a CIA backed military coups of removing Diem from power. The coup backed fire, Diem was murdered and America from that day on owned South Vietnam, it became America's problem and JFK knew it. Three weeks later JFK was assassinated.

The Kennedy klan has a well organizes machine in place to protect the Kennedy legacy. It involves myths, lies and revisionist history. But with every CIA dump of former classified information, the release of Eisenhower's papers and the death of Teddy Kennedy, the truth is finally being reviewed.

But I digress.

What we are seeing today is an incompetent President Obama who has surrounded himself with second rate people and a Commander and Chief who was derelict with his duties on 9-11-12 and initiated a cover up for his own political gain to get reelected.

Only the Cn'C could authorise the military to go in to Benghazi. Unless Obama authorised someone else to do it, that would be dereliction of duty. Someone ordered U.S. Special Operation Forced to stand down twice ! Who issued those orders ?

Barack Obama already has an established track record olf not being able to make quick decisions that are required to be Cn'C. The first time we saw ikt was in 2009 when the commanders in Afghanistan requested a troop surge. It took Obama three months before he authorised the surge while American troops are being killed on the battlefield.

U.S. intelligence services knew of Osama bin Ladens compound for eight months before Navy SEAL's went in and took out Bin Laden. That we already have three of those Navy SEAL's say they were ready to go in and get Bin Laden for three months. And three times they were ordered to go it they were soon ordered to stand down.

That we soon find out that Obama never issued the order to send the SEAL's in, he only authorised the mission. That Obama laid the responsibility of issuing the order to Panetta and Panetta laid that responsibility on the lap of Admiral McRaven so if the mission failed the Obama White House could blame the Navy SEAL's and Admiral McRaven for the failure.

America has an incompetent Cn'C sitting in the White House who isn't capable of making quick decisions when they are needed to be made.
 
Yep, a deadly serious chess match and at time using other countries as proxy wars instead of the big WWIII. Thank god for proxy wars.

You're talking about my business area. Good evening, Pero.:2wave:
 
This thread isn't about the mistakes or blunders and the legacy of JFK, it's about an incompetent President who occupies the White House today.

But there were no missile silos in Cuba. The Soviet missiles were not ICBM but intermediate range missiles.

It was RFK who negotiated with the Soviets and JFK agreed to remove NATO's missiles from Turkey when the Soviets removed their missiles from Cuba.

The myth of the Bay of Pigs was that Eisenhower signed off on the CIA mission. Eisenhower never signed off on the Bay of Pigs. On the day of JFK inauguration Eisenhower informed JFK of the CIA Bay of Pigs mission. Eisenhower warned JFK not to sign off on the mission until there's a popular Cuban government that was in exile. And if he does sign off on the mission make sure the the invasion forces control the air space over the Bay of Pigs and that the U.S. military must provide close air support for the invading forces. JFK refused to do none of that but still signed off on the mission.

You are aware that JFK use to call Eisenhower for advice on numerous occasions. But JFK never acted on Eisenhower's advice and warnings and would ignore Eisenhower and instead listen to his Harvard buddies he surrounded himself with known as the "Young and Brightest."

One of those warning was when Eisenhower warned JFK not to get involved with the Diem regime in the RVN. That Diem was to corrupt. He also warned JFK if he's going to make a stand against Communist expansion in South East Asia not to make the stand at the 17th parallel. That Laos is where you have to make your stand, not in Vietnam.

JFK as usual ignored Eisenhower's advice and warnings and signed of on a CIA backed military coups of removing Diem from power. The coup backed fire, Diem was murdered and America from that day on owned South Vietnam, it became America's problem and JFK knew it. Three weeks later JFK was assassinated.

The Kennedy klan has a well organizes machine in place to protect the Kennedy legacy. It involves myths, lies and revisionist history. But with every CIA dump of former classified information, the release of Eisenhower's papers and the death of Teddy Kennedy, the truth is finally being reviewed.

But I digress.

What we are seeing today is an incompetent President Obama who has surrounded himself with second rate people and a Commander and Chief who was derelict with his duties on 9-11-12 and initiated a cover up for his own political gain to get reelected.

Only the Cn'C could authorise the military to go in to Benghazi. Unless Obama authorised someone else to do it, that would be dereliction of duty. Someone ordered U.S. Special Operation Forced to stand down twice ! Who issued those orders ?

Barack Obama already has an established track record olf not being able to make quick decisions that are required to be Cn'C. The first time we saw ikt was in 2009 when the commanders in Afghanistan requested a troop surge. It took Obama three months before he authorised the surge while American troops are being killed on the battlefield.

U.S. intelligence services knew of Osama bin Ladens compound for eight months before Navy SEAL's went in and took out Bin Laden. That we already have three of those Navy SEAL's say they were ready to go in and get Bin Laden for three months. And three times they were ordered to go it they were soon ordered to stand down.

That we soon find out that Obama never issued the order to send the SEAL's in, he only authorised the mission. That Obama laid the responsibility of issuing the order to Panetta and Panetta laid that responsibility on the lap of Admiral McRaven so if the mission failed the Obama White House could blame the Navy SEAL's and Admiral McRaven for the failure.

America has an incompetent Cn'C sitting in the White House who isn't capable of making quick decisions when they are needed to be made.

Believe what you like - history is fun debating but this certainly isn't the forum for such a debate so I will leave it at that.

As far as Obama.... He's useless, he's a meme or avatar and those he appoints around him are radicals - they have no idea how to handle a situation like Benghazi..... They're tokens...

Diversity and hot button politics is Obamas first train of thought - not national security. Every one of his cabinet members and thos who they appointed under them were students of Alinsky or Marx.

I'm not an idiot .... Those are philosophies that are being employed in the mainstream presently.
 
Enjoying a couple of Friday martinis and watching the BHO gang twist, slowly, in the wind. Life is good. You?:cool:

They have to be absolutely apoplectic behind doors.
 
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