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IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups[W:484,732]

Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups [W:484

Wow...

I'm only 1/2 hr into the part 1. these guys are clearly not doing their jobs. They get notified of wrongdoing, claim to handle it internally, but never reported it above, their excuse being "it was in the media."

My God...

The media is not factual information of their followup.
 
Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups [W:484

Lord of Planar said:
Wow...

I'm only 1/2 hr into the part 1. these guys are clearly not doing their jobs. They get notified of wrongdoing, claim to handle it internally, but never reported it above, their excuse being "it was in the media."

My God...

The media is not factual information of their followup.
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since it was in the media, those above would have become aware of it
and addressed it
should they have been interested
 
Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups [W:484

justabubba said:
since it was in the media, those above would have become aware of it
and addressed it
should they have been interested
Click to expand...
The media is so often wrong, no reputable chain of command would use it as seeing what internal investigations were. These high officials didn't report what little investigation they did up the chain, using the media as an excuse that higher up would be aware.

That simply doesn't fly...

For it to work, they would have to then claim they were the media leaks, but the media didn't tell the higher-ups...

I stopped after 48 minutes, and will watch more late.

These IRS officials testifying should be fired for incompetence and/or complicity...
 
Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups [W:484

Wow...

This clip, if accurate, is deplorable in the questions the IRS is asking.

For those who don't want to wade through all this, go to 1:22:27 of part 1, and watch for a few minutes.
 
Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups [W:484

disneydude said:
I give you credit....you are different than most. I agree. The IRS shouldn't be targeting any group, be it Liberal or Conservative...but the "outrage" does seem a little disengenous coming from people who sat unsurprisingly silent when the same thing took place under Bush.
Click to expand...

Yeah, but hypocrisy abounds in politics. You know, the "all's fair..." stuff and all....See, the thing is, not just the IRS scandal, but couple that with Benghazi, DOJ/AP, HHS "soliciting donations", DHS letting criminal illegals out of jail, DOJ losing track of terrorist suspects in the witness protection program, and then consider that during all this, the person connected with the IRS scandal.

The Internal Revenue Service official in charge of the tax-exempt organizations at the time when the unit targeted tea party groups now runs the IRS office responsible for the health care legislation.
Sarah Hall Ingram served as commissioner of the office responsible for tax-exempt organizations between 2009 and 2012. But Ingram has since left that part of the IRS and is now the director of the IRS’ Affordable Care Act office, the IRS confirmed to ABC News today.

IRS Official in Charge During Tea Party Targeting Now Runs Health Care Office - ABC News
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This is unbelievable. It is in your face corruption...And all we get from the administration, or its defenders is either, "it's no big deal", or "Nothing to see here", or "I don't remember", or "well, Republicans did it too."

Sorry, that is not good enough. Look, I made a lot of blind defenses of the Bush administration when he was in office, and more than a few liberals that I respect told me that I would regret it if another President came in and ramped up the dishonesty, and circumvention of our rights. This is now happening. And we have a progressive in office that doesn't care if people see it, or he thinks that people are too dumb to recognize it. The arrogance, and hubris in the face of the people with this corruption is astonishing, and if you think that an IRS official sits in front of congress and tries to sell us that this bull **** was a result of "bad service", or "was not partisan in nature", then my friend, I will tell you the same thing people told me in the height of the installation of the Patriot act, and that is this is the curtailment of freedom, and you may snicker now when the right, and the TP are the targets, but you just wait when it is progressives that are targeted. That snicker will turn quickly to screams of injustice.
 
Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups in 201

Jack Hays said:
Charlie is thrifty.:lol:
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Most of these guys come in to office moderately well off, or even middle class, and leave with net worth's of lottery winners....Am I missing something? How in the hell does a person that serves in congress for ten years, let's say, come in with a normal middle class net worth, and leave with one in the millions?

Nah, no bribes there. :lol:
 
Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups [W:484

justabubba said:
since it was in the media, those above would have become aware of it
and addressed it
should they have been interested
Click to expand...

But that's just it Bubba, they are at the same time saying that they had no idea this was going on, and therefore never reported it up the chain, or never started an investigation.

Sorry, I call Bull!
 
Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups [W:484

Lord of Planar said:
Wow...

This clip, if accurate, is deplorable in the questions the IRS is asking.

For those who don't want to wade through all this, go to 1:22:27 of part 1, and watch for a few minutes.
Click to expand...

Just wait until we have to jump through those hoops to get medical procedure we need....Oh that's going to be wonderful....

"Oh, I see Mr. X that you answered in our 27 page questionaire for approval of your medical procedure that you didn't turn over your families reading list, complete with the requested essay summaries of the books you read for the past 3 years. We are sorry to inform you that not only will we have to at this time deny your request for coverage, but will be sending the FBI to your door for repeated, and deeply probing investigations of your entire life, and possible prosecution."

Just great.
 
Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups [W:484

j-mac said:
Just wait until we have to jump through those hoops to get medical procedure we need....Oh that's going to be wonderful....

"Oh, I see Mr. X that you answered in our 27 page questionaire for approval of your medical procedure that you didn't turn over your families reading list, complete with the requested essay summaries of the books you read for the past 3 years. We are sorry to inform you that not only will we have to at this time deny your request for coverage, but will be sending the FBI to your door for repeated, and deeply probing investigations of your entire life, and possible prosecution."

Just great.
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Can you believe that?

The IRS asking for a book report on the reading, and question 26...

Unbelievable. Who ever abused their position created those questions to effectively deny the tax status needs to go to jail!

I have no tolerance for abuse of power.
 
Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups [W:484

Lord of Planar said:
Can you believe that?

The IRS asking for a book report on the reading, and question 26...

Unbelievable. Who ever abused their position created those questions to effectively deny the tax status needs to go to jail!

I have no tolerance for abuse of power.
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Someone said that during Eric Holder's testimony he asserted the "I don't know" answer over 50 times in the course of answering, or 'non-answering' his questions. I wonder how many times we heard that yesterday.....Seems like a pattern of deception going on here in reporting to congress doesn't there?

I think we need a special prosecutor for the IRS, and DOJ both, and a select committee for Benghazi. Anything short of that, and soon is dereliction by Boehner.
 
Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups in 201

j-mac said:
Most of these guys come in to office moderately well off, or even middle class, and leave with net worth's of lottery winners....Am I missing something? How in the hell does a person that serves in congress for ten years, let's say, come in with a normal middle class net worth, and leave with one in the millions?

Nah, no bribes there. :lol:
Click to expand...


Nothing so crude as bribery. More like business opportunities that are only available to a select few.:mrgreen:
 
Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups in 201

Jack Hays said:
Nothing so crude as bribery. More like business opportunities that are only available to a select few.:mrgreen:
Click to expand...

I hear ya....However, a rose by any other name, and all....;)
 
Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups [W:484

j-mac said:
Someone said that during Eric Holder's testimony he asserted the "I don't know" answer over 50 times in the course of answering, or 'non-answering' his questions. I wonder how many times we heard that yesterday.....Seems like a pattern of deception going on here in reporting to congress doesn't there?
Click to expand...
It's the administrative version of citing the 5th amendment, which isn't a viable option, although the more appropriate refuge for the likes of Holder.
 
Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups in 201

j-mac said:
I give you Charles Rangel (D) NY.

Charlie Rangel Hides Income and Assets - WSJ.com

This long time trash came into office after serving in the Army during VN, and certainly wasn't worth anywhere near what this report shows....So, where'd he get it?
Click to expand...

That's tax evasion, not bribery. And Im not sure what exposing the donors of political advocacy groups would have to do with it.
 
Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups [W:484

j-mac said:
Someone said that during Eric Holder's testimony he asserted the "I don't know" answer over 50 times in the course of answering, or 'non-answering' his questions. I wonder how many times we heard that yesterday.....Seems like a pattern of deception going on here in reporting to congress doesn't there?
Click to expand...
no, what you see is a combination of CYA - cover your ass - and questions that deserve an 'i don't know' answer
for example, the R committee member would ask "who did you speak with about this" and miller would answer "woman's actual name and IRS title". then the follow up question would be who did she identify as being the problem. miller would have that in his notes. it's not information he could not make available to the committee, but it's also not the kind of information he would be expected to know without his notes
the ways and means committee members from the republican side asked a lot of those foolish questions. and the appropriate answer to give when some one under oath does not know, is to say "i don't know"
that the civil servant answered 'i don't know' 50 times is an indication he got 50 stupid questions from republican committee members


I think we need a special prosecutor for the IRS, and DOJ both, and a select committee for Benghazi. Anything short of that, and soon is dereliction by Boehner.
Click to expand...
and i agree with you
let's get to the bottom of all of these things with an independent investigator so the government can get back to doing the peoples' business
 
Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups [W:484

justabubba said:
no, what you see is a combination of CYA - cover your ass - and questions that deserve an 'i don't know' answer
for example, the R committee member would ask "who did you speak with about this" and miller would answer "woman's actual name and IRS title". then the follow up question would be who did she identify as being the problem. miller would have that in his notes. it's not information he could not make available to the committee, but it's also not the kind of information he would be expected to know without his notes
the ways and means committee members from the republican side asked a lot of those foolish questions. and the appropriate answer to give when some one under oath does not know, is to say "i don't know"
that the civil servant answered 'i don't know' 50 times is an indication he got 50 stupid questions from republican committee members
Click to expand...

Sorry, but no. A senior civil servant who prepares for Congressional testimony gets ready to answer exactly that sort of question. I know because I've done it. When a witness has not done that preparation it's a signal that he wants to drag out the process and, to the extent possible, hinder the inquiry. The Congressmen may or may not have expected answers to their questions, but they and their staffs understand the meaning of the non-answers. They are now digging in for intra-government combat.:mrgreen:
 
Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups [W:484

Jack Hays said:
Sorry, but no. A senior civil servant who prepares for Congressional testimony gets ready to answer exactly that sort of question. I know because I've done it. When a witness has not done that preparation it's a signal that he wants to drag out the process and, to the extent possible, hinder the inquiry. The Congressmen may or may not have expected answers to their questions, but they and their staffs understand the meaning of the non-answers. They are now digging in for intra-government combat.:mrgreen:
Click to expand...

How hilarious is it to see someone argue that civil servants should be prepared to answer stupid questions? :lamo
 
Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups [W:484

Jack Hays said:
Sorry, but no. A senior civil servant who prepares for Congressional testimony gets ready to answer exactly that sort of question. I know because I've done it. When a witness has not done that preparation it's a signal that he wants to drag out the process and, to the extent possible, hinder the inquiry. The Congressmen may or may not have expected answers to their questions, but they and their staffs understand the meaning of the non-answers. They are now digging in for intra-government combat.:mrgreen:
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again, the non-answers are only the result of being asked stupid questions
the R's specialty as we can see from recent hearings
the congress could hold the witness for contempt of congress if it was actually found that the witness was being evasive
and we saw none of that
what we saw were lots of neocons becoming publicly outraged when the civil servants would not give them the answers wanted by the republicans to use as a 'gotcha' against the Obama administration
in short, the inept republicans were found too clever by half
 
Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups [W:484

sangha said:
How hilarious is it to see someone argue that civil servants should be prepared to answer stupid questions? :lamo
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Stupid or not, they are expected questions, and the wise, prepared witness is ready to answer them.:cool:
 
Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups [W:484

sangha said:
How hilarious is it to see someone argue that civil servants should be prepared to answer stupid questions? :lamo
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You've got a point. There were democrat Congressmen in the room, though, so I can see where a civil servant should be prepared to answer such questions.
 
Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups [W:484

Jack Hays said:
Stupid or not, they are expected questions, and the wise, prepared witness is ready to answer them.:cool:
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no. when a question is asked of someone about information they would not be reasonably expected to possess, it is nothing other than a stupid question from an inept - republican - questioner
the ways and means hearings with the IRS exhibited that for all to see
 
Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups [W:484

justabubba said:
again, the non-answers are only the result of being asked stupid questions
the R's specialty as we can see from recent hearings
the congress could hold the witness for contempt of congress if it was actually found that the witness was being evasive
and we saw none of that
what we saw were lots of neocons becoming publicly outraged when the civil servants would not give them the answers wanted by the republicans to use as a 'gotcha' against the Obama administration
in short, the inept republicans were found too clever by half
Click to expand...

The witness was evasive, and arrogant. He did his cause and the administration much harm. As I posted previously, the staffers are digging in for combat. The members know there's blood, and they're ready too. The witness performed terribly, and his side will pay. Why did he do it? Probably to reduce his exposure to legal jeopardy.:cool:
 
Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups [W:484

Jack Hays said:
Stupid or not, they are expected questions, and the wise, prepared witness is ready to answer them.:cool:
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And sometimes, the best answer for an expected question is "I don't know"

For example, if they were to be asked "Did anyone else in the White House know about this?" of someone who knew of no one else who knew, the only responsible answer would be "I don't know" because they could not possibly know what everyone in the WH knew.

But thanks for confirming that you think the questions were stupid!
 
Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups [W:484

sangha said:
And sometimes, the best answer for an expected question is "I don't know"

For example, if they were to be asked "Did anyone else in the White House know about this?" of someone who knew of no one else who knew, the only responsible answer would be "I don't know" because they could not possibly know what everyone in the WH knew.

But thanks for confirming that you think the questions were stupid!
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As usual, you misunderstand. The questions were exploratory. The witness was asked, for the most part, questions to which he could have known the answers. The staffers will now treat him as hostile. It only gets worse from here.:cool:
 
Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups [W:484

stupid questions
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NBC: Why Did IRS Mislead Congress For An Entire Year? | RealClearPolitics

mr miller, why did you testify to congress 4 times that no special treatment was accorded tea party apps when tigta concludes unequivocally that there was?

miller: well, congressman, i'm gonna have to give you a non answer on that, it's a stupid question

LOL!

what an idiot

miller, i mean
 
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