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IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups[W:484,732]

Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups in 201

so many words, so few links

everyone has a mere opinion, what makes you think yours is any better, narcissus?

read:

The Internal Revenue Service official in charge of the tax-exempt organizations at the time when the unit targeted tea party groups now runs the IRS office responsible for the health care legislation.

Sarah Hall Ingram served as commissioner of the office responsible for tax-exempt organizations between 2009 and 2012. But Ingram has since left that part of the IRS and is now the director of the IRS’ Affordable Care Act office, the IRS confirmed to ABC News today.

Her successor, Joseph Grant, is taking the fall for misdeeds at the scandal-plagued unit between 2010 and 2012. During at least part of that time, Grant served as deputy commissioner of the tax-exempt unit.

Grant announced today that he would retire June 3, despite being appointed as commissioner of the tax-exempt office May 8, a week ago.

IRS Official in Charge During Tea Party Targeting Now Runs Health Care Office - ABC News

why did miller resign, why did grant?

why, how was ms ingram moved to director of irs-obamacare?

curiouser and curiouser

there will be a special prosecutor, this will take years, folks taking falls are often forthcoming...

stay tuned

in other words, if you radically increased your link-to-word ratio, it would force you to know what you're talking about

shut up and read
 
Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups in 201

chris matthews, who has been ripping the white house for 3 days, is right now tearing jay carney to shreds

how can the president again and again say he learned in the news---the irs, the ap, fast and furious?

shouldn't he know things before he reads them in the paper?

why can't he say unequivocally that he did not know the irs was going after tea partiers for two years?

President Obama said Thursday he had no knowledge about a report concerning controversial IRS practices under investigation until news outlets reported on the subject last Friday, and he vowed to "fix" problems plaguing the agency through a comprehensive examination of what happened and how.

"I can assure you that I certainly did not know anything about the [inspector general] report before the I.G. report had been leaked" to the press, Mr. Obama said Thursday, during a rainy press conference in the White House Rose Garden with Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan.

Obama: I didn't know about IRS report - CBS News

even you have to appreciate that if the president could say he knew nothing about the CRIMINAL BEHAVIOR the irs was engaged in for 2 years, he very loudly and clearly would

that he didn't deny knowledge of irs unevenness, that he stated instead that he knew naught of the ig report, speaks volumes

matthews is mindful of this admission

steven miller (you don't know who that is) testifies in ways and means tomorrow, under oath, no fifth...

stay tuned
 
Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups in 201

President Barack Obama dismissed calls for the appointment of a special prosecutor to investigate the IRS scandal, and evaded a question asking if White House officials knew of the IRS targeting of conservative political groups.

“I can assure that I certainly did not know anything about the report before the IG report had been leaked through the press,” he told reporters during a Thursday lunchtime press conference held in the White House Rose Garden.

Obama’s evasion will likely spur public suspicions that White House officials knew about, or even supported, the IRS targeting.

Obama evades question on White House knowledge of IRS targeting | The Daily Caller

at this point, he should call for a special prosecutor

but he can't, it's just not in his dna

he cannot prevent the truth, he can only impede

he guarantees the scandal lengthens and deepens thereby

more power to him, of course

you need to run away
 
Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups in 201

Exactly what do you say that is not standard talking points? Mithros is dead on. Up until the end of GWB's first trime I was pretty durn conservative myself. Actually GWB just finished off my Republicanness. It is not just the RW platform sliding further right all the time it is the craziness, silliness and double standards that just make it impossible for any thinking person to deal with it.

Talking points:

-anytime you lose an elections its impeach impeach impeach
-crazies on the left aren't as bad as crazies on the right
-Bush did a bunch of bad things
-conservatives were silent
-Obama is the most transparent, cleanest president in history
-obamas under a microscope like no other

I can go on and on, but come on, these are the same platitudes we hear every day from the left. All he missed was that conservatives hate Obama because their racist.
 
Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups in 201

Obama isn't going to be impeached. Even the Republicans aren't stupid enough to try to impeach the first black President.
 
Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups in 201

If talking points are true, are they still talking points?
Talking points:

-anytime you lose an elections its impeach impeach impeach
-crazies on the left aren't as bad as crazies on the right
-Bush did a bunch of bad things
-conservatives were silent
-Obama is the most transparent, cleanest president in history
-obamas under a microscope like no other

I can go on and on, but come on, these are the same platitudes we hear every day from the left. All he missed was that conservatives hate Obama because their racist.
 
Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups in 201

But race has nuthin to do with it....
Obama isn't going to be impeached. Even the Republicans aren't stupid enough to try to impeach the first black President.
 
Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups in 201

But race has nuthin to do with it....

I does in this case. Can you imagine the sh*t storm for trying to impeach the first black President without overwhelming evidence of treason or something like that? Impeach him over an IRS scandal? Even the Republicans aren't that stupid.
 
Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups in 201

Seriously, what is it with some of you conservatives? Anytime you lose an
election it's IMPEACH IMPEACH IMPEACH. Yeah there are crazies on the left, but not nearly as many or as bad.

I was a conservative during the Clinton years, and I followed all of the supposed scandals. Then Bush took office and many of the same things happened. Conservatives were silent. Then worse things happened.... Still silence. Obama takes office and its IMPEACH IMPAEACH IMPEACH.

It's just not credible. Like him, hate him, whatever, objectively he's run the cleanest administration in a generation. Most effective, ehhhh. But certainly the cleanest, most scandal free. And yes, that's objective.

The Obama administration has been held under a microscope like no other. You think tea party groups had to provide “too much” information to the IRS. What about Fast and Furious? What about Benghazi? What about every other supposed scandal that starts out by with the House Republicans clambering about impeachable offenses because they suspect that something may exist in some document that they don't yet have even though they have no evidence to suggest that any such thing exists.

This is like saying, if Fenton murdered someone we'll be sure to send him straight to jail. How could he possibly think that he could get away with murder. I know he hasn't turned himself in, but if we can pin this charge on him, then we'll be sure to take him to trial. Granted, we have no evidence that Fenton did anything, but we also don't have all of the information yet.

You were never a Conservative.

Conservatives are principled people who don't change their ideology to suite the weather.

You may have thought you were at one time when in reality you simply misunderstood the definition of the word.

I always call BS on liberals when they tell me they morphed out of Conservatism. For one thing its backwards.

Remember the saying ? If your young and Conservative you have no heart, if your'e old and Liberal you have no brain.

Look Conservatism is a ideology defined by truth, Liberalism is " Truth " defined by ideology, so chances are you were always Liberal because the truth is a constant.......unless of course your'e a Democrat.

I meam your statement that Obama's administration is the " cleanest " ? THAT'S a little frightening.

If someone I knew told me that we would be in hot pursuit of the nearest MRI because my suspicion woulf be a brain tumor has clouded their judgment.
 
Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups in 201

I was at one point very conservative/republican, you know, back in the day when it was the party of morals and ethics. We could discuss the Repubs leadership and how they are subverted for cash, I really cant sit here and think of a single issue the RW does not come down on the side of business and corporations, morals and ethics be damned. BUt the very biggest thing I think of when I lament the decline of the Republican party is the emails. I know it is not that big a deal, I can delete them. My family and friends send them to me all the time in hopes of converting me back. There are so many that twist some shred of truth so far it is really an outright lie, but it started with some shred of truth. So many others are outright lies from the get go. They send me these emails and I used to send back proof they were outright lies that were easy to prove, and they kept sending them around anyway even though they know it is a lie. I remember when honesty meant something to the republicans. These people are the base of the republican party. They lie and know they lie. They have talking heads and an entire news networks to lie to them to them, knowing full well the truth is out there, but they dont wanna spread know. NO dont tell me, the conservatives are principled. The only principle I can see they have stuck to is big buisness. No, it is not truth that defines the conservatives.
You were never a Conservative.

Conservatives are principled people who don't change their ideology to suite the weather.

You may have thought you were at one time when in reality you simply misunderstood the definition of the word.

I always call BS on liberals when they tell me they morphed out of Conservatism. For one thing its backwards.

Remember the saying ? If your young and Conservative you have no heart, if your'e old and Liberal you have no brain.

Look Conservatism is a ideology defined by truth, Liberalism is " Truth " defined by ideology, so chances are you were always Liberal because the truth is a constant.......unless of course your'e a Democrat.

I meam your statement that Obama's administration is the " cleanest " ? THAT'S a little frightening.

If someone I knew told me that we would be in hot pursuit of the nearest MRI because my suspicion woulf be a brain tumor has clouded their judgment.
 
Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups in 201

If talking points are true, are they still talking points?

They are talking points because they arent true (or debateably true).
 
Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups in 201

In a nation where we have free speech this should never happen. One of the biggest fears with bloated bureaucracy is that they will use their position to squash or hinder political groups or people they don't like.

My concern is I wonder how high up this goes. The person in charge of trying to disadvantage conservative groups does not need to have his/her position and abuse his/her authority to try and squash groups they don't like. Charges should be made if applicable, trying to disadvantage a group based on their beliefs is a very severe form government oppression in my opinion and should not be tolerated at all. This is what I would expect from more totalitarian nations with less freedom like China, Iran, or Russia. This should absolutely not be happening in the United States where one of our chief principals is freedom of speech and the right to believe what you want without the government impeding upon that.

Let's not get carried away.

While the filtering the IRS used for targeting further review was completely inappropriate, it is important for people to understand that the groups applying for this specific tax exempt status 501 (c) 4 explicitly declared that they would be social welfare organizations and could engage in political speech but MUST be operated exclusively for the promotion of "social welfare", such as civics and civics issues, or local associations of employees with membership limited to a designated company or people in a particular municipality or neighborhood, and with net earnings devoted exclusively to charitable, educational, or recreational purposes.

Let's not kid ourselves, these groups popped up after the Citizens United decision to skirt not only taxation, but to provide anonymity to donors.

The problem is not that groups with political sounding names like Tea Party were targeted, they should have been. The problem is that there appears to be no filtering done for political sounding names that would be politically left.

The bigger problem is that Congress has abdicated it's responsibility to provide direction to the IRS. The Citizens United case effectively changed the law and Congress had a responsibility to address the changes the court imposed and pass laws that reflect the new law that Citizens United created. Instead, they left it completely up to a bureaucracy to figure out how to apply the law created by the court.

But this is not about political speech, since these groups are specifically NOT supposed to be engaged in significant political speech, rather this about finding the groups attempting to skirt the law.

Again, EVERY political sounding name should have been targeted.
 
Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups in 201

I am sitting around the house this AM trying to get fired up to do lawn work. Indy has a Republican thought leader on the radio named Garrison. I have only heard a couple of callers but the last one was a guy who has always voted Republican and a couple of times last year, he donated to the RNC. Unbelievably the damn IRS sent him a letter requesting more information (I dont remember what form, it was some standard form) or they would delay his return. It was a forgotten form almost without a doubt, but now this guy is convienced the IRS is harassing him because he donated to the RNC.
 
Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups in 201

Talking points:

-anytime you lose an elections its impeach impeach impeach
-crazies on the left aren't as bad as crazies on the right
-Bush did a bunch of bad things
-conservatives were silent
-Obama is the most transparent, cleanest president in history
-obamas under a microscope like no other

I can go on and on, but come on, these are the same platitudes we hear every day from the left. All he missed was that conservatives hate Obama because their racist.

I'm not sure that the Democrats want me writing their talking points.

There are things that I'm not thrilled about with each of these three "scandals". I think security was too lax in Benghazi, there's ostensibly too much of an effort to target leaks, and targeting groups because they have "tea party" in their names is completely unjust and absurd.

But understand, the Republicans do themselves a great disservice with this constant exaggeration and conspiracy theorizing. Obama **MAY** have some blame in all three of these. But it falls far short of intentionally orchestrating it. If you want people to take you seriously you have to be intellectually honest.



These are structural failings. Both the administration as well as the GOP share in the blame. The administration is responsible for those under it. And there were obviously mistakes made. But part of the reason that mistakes were made is that funding for embassy security as well as IRS personnel was significantly cut.


Take the IRS. These aren't evil people, they're your neighbors. They work in an office that's has to process twice as many applications with 30% less people. So they're now working longer hours with a pay freeze processing forms that say that they're the problem.... It's not acceptable, but it's kind of understandable....
 
Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups in 201

But in order to engage in electioneering, 501(c)(4)'s had to set up a Federal Separate Segregated Fund (SSF) also known as a connected PAC. The 501(c)(4) could pay administrative costs of SSF through general funds, but the SSF was subject to the Federal Election Campaign Act. As such they had to report donors SSF donors to FEC using Form 3X.
That's not the case - as we’ve already established, a 501(c)(4) can engage in such political activity so long as it is not its primary purpose. Money spent in that manner can be taxed, and too much money spent in that manner can jeopardize the tax exempt status of the organization. Based on that, a 501(c) may choose to establish a Federal PAC, which is treated as a tax-exempt political organization under §527.

This SSF will carry the name of the associated 501(c)(4). Both the 501(c)(4) and associated PAC can engage in electioneering communications, and are required by the FEC to disclose the source of the ad, so I might have one "Paid for by Debate Politics" and another "Paid for by Debate Politics PAC." Thus, it's just not true that "in order to engage in electioneering, 501c4's had to set up a connected PAC."
 
Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups in 201

Anyone looking at that "federal tax deduction" even more disgustingly these days?
 
Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups in 201

I'm not sure that the Democrats want me writing their talking points.

There are things that I'm not thrilled about with each of these three "scandals". I think security was too lax in Benghazi, there's ostensibly too much of an effort to target leaks, and targeting groups because they have "tea party" in their names is completely unjust and absurd.

But understand, the Republicans do themselves a great disservice with this constant exaggeration and conspiracy theorizing. Obama **MAY** have some blame in all three of these. But it falls far short of intentionally orchestrating it. If you want people to take you seriously you have to be intellectually honest.



These are structural failings. Both the administration as well as the GOP share in the blame. The administration is responsible for those under it. And there were obviously mistakes made. But part of the reason that mistakes were made is that funding for embassy security as well as IRS personnel was significantly cut.


Take the IRS. These aren't evil people, they're your neighbors. They work in an office that's has to process twice as many applications with 30% less people. So they're now working longer hours with a pay freeze processing forms that say that they're the problem.... It's not acceptable, but it's kind of understandable....

The rant you posted earlier was not intellectually honest. That was was my only criticism. Instead of dealing with whats going on now, you resort to the typical blame Bush, republicans are just being rediculous ad hominems.
 
Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups in 201

That's not the case - as we’ve already established, a 501(c)(4) can engage in such political activity so long as it is not its primary purpose. Money spent in that manner can be taxed, and too much money spent in that manner can jeopardize the tax exempt status of the organization. Therefore, a 501(c) may choose to establish a Federal PAC, which is treated as a tax-exempt political organization under §527.

This SSF will carry the name of the associated 501(c)(4). Both the 501(c)(4) and associated PAC can engage in electioneering communications, and are required by the FEC to disclose the source of the ad, so I might have one "Paid for by Debate Politics" and another "Paid for by Debate Politics PAC." Thus, it's just not true that "in order to engage in electioneering, 501c4's had to set up a connected PAC."

Post Citizens' United you are absolutley correct, the 501(c)(4) can engage in electoral communications using general treasury funds so long as it's not the primary purpose. But this wasn't the case pre-Citizens' United.

Here's an article about disclosure
http://afjactioncampaign.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/501c4-Reporting.pdf
If you set up an SSF, here's the form you have to file. http://fec.gov/pdf/forms/fecfrm3x.pdf , I believe that pages 20 and 21 are where donors exceeding some amount must be disclosed.

Organizations engaging in independent expenditures, must fill out http://fec.gov/pdf/forms/fecfrm5.pdf. You'll note that all donations over 200$ received for the purpose of making an independent expenditure must be reported.

Independent expenditure - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This was the law before Citizens United, and it's the law now. What has changed is that Citizens United allows companies and organizations to contribute to the independent expenditure fund with their general treasury.
 
Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups in 201

I'm not sure that the Democrats want me
writing their talking points.

There are things that I'm not thrilled about with each of these three "scandals". I think security was too lax in Benghazi, there's ostensibly too much of an effort to target leaks, and targeting groups because they have "tea party" in their names is completely unjust and absurd.

But understand, the Republicans do themselves a great disservice with this constant exaggeration and conspiracy theorizing. Obama **MAY** have some blame in all three of these. But it falls far short of intentionally orchestrating it. If you want people to take you seriously you have to be intellectually honest.



These are structural failings. Both the administration as well as the GOP share in the blame. The administration is responsible for those under it. And there were obviously mistakes made. But part of the reason that mistakes were made is that funding for embassy security as well as IRS personnel was significantly cut.


Take the IRS. These aren't evil people, they're your neighbors. They work in an office that's has to process twice as many applications with 30% less people. So they're now working longer hours with a pay freeze processing forms that say that they're the problem.... It's not acceptable, but it's kind of understandable....

Oh BULL SH**.

We're NOT doing a diservice by wanting our Politicians to be accountable. YOUR'E doing a disservice by mitigating these failings.

Look, Obama's General Council knew of the IGs report outcome THREE Weeks prior to when Obama claimed he learned about it.

THREE WEEKS. So you expect me to believe that a seriously damaging report on the IRS targeting Conservative Groups was kept from Obama for THREE WEEKS ??

I'm not a Obama supporter, so I'm not easily fooled by some Liberals Bs lies.

So as far as I'm concerned OBAMA KNEW. He knew the day the report made it to his General Council, he knew about Benghazi as he was , I promise, sitting in the situation room giving orders to stand down. NOT sleeping as he want's his low info voters to believe.

Again, you and people like you that desperately trt ro explain away his obvious lies and disinformation are the ones doing the Country a diservice.

Obama's MO is he was disconnected completely from everything bad, but was right on top of the Osama killing with full 8 x 10 color photographs of him sitting in the Situation room.

Holders MO is that he was disconnected, from Fast and Furious and from the AP wire tapping scandal.

Hillary's MO is that she was disconnected and that any thing that wen't wrong in Benghazi was the fault of some nameless faceless bureaucrat.

Are you f****in kidding me ? What a bunch of low life scum. Look, I have no compassion for people that would lie to the parents of the victims of Benghazi to save their political asses.

If we can pin high crimes and misdemeanors on Obama, he needs to pack his sh** up and go. If we can charge Hillary with perjury, then gods speed.

Your'e trying to defend your ideology, I'm arguing for our Politicians to be held accountable, to be held to the same standards as their consituency.
 
Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups in 201

Whats the deal with this?

Steven Miller, the acting IRS commissioner, said Friday that last week’s revelation that the IRS gave special scrutiny to Tea Party groups came from a planted question.

Lois Lerner, an IRS official with oversight of tax-exempt groups, disclosed the scrutiny at an American Bankers Association conference last Friday after a question from a lawyer who has served on IRS advisory boards.

Questioned by Rep. Devin Nunes (R-Calif.), Miller acknowledged that IRS officials were aware that the question would be coming.


Read more: Question that revealed IRS scandal was planted, chief admits - The Hill's On The Money
Follow us: @thehill on Twitter | TheHill on Facebook

Planting questions to out the scandal, and no one even told SecTres or POTUS?
 
Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups in 201

The rant you posted earlier was not intellectually honest. That was was my only criticism. Instead of dealing with whats going on now, you resort to the typical blame Bush, republicans are just being rediculous ad hominems.
Which part was dishonest? Which part was an ad-hominem argument against Republicans? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem. That's where you say that someone's argument is wrong because they're dumb/stupid/liar/ etc... That is different than saying that someone is being ridiculous because of positions they're taking.

Seriously, what is it with some of you conservatives? Anytime you lose an election it's IMPEACH IMPEACH IMPEACH. Yeah there are crazies on the left, but not nearly as many or as bad.
Notice I'm talking about some conservatives, not all. In particular it's ones like Fenton. If the word some wasn't there, then you'd have a point. The second part is an unbacked assertion, but I think it stands.

I was a conservative during the Clinton years, and I followed all of the supposed scandals. Then Bush took office and many of the same things happened. Conservatives were silent. Then worse things happened.... Still silence. Obama takes office and its IMPEACH IMPAEACH IMPEACH.
Also an unbacked assertion, but I'd stand by it. There were calls to impeach Obama almost before he took office.

It's just not credible. Like him, hate him, whatever, objectively he's run the cleanest administration in a generation. Most effective, ehhhh. But certainly the cleanest, most scandal free. And yes, that's objective.
A third assertion, supported by the next paragraph.

The Obama administration has been held under a microscope like no other. You think tea party groups had to provide “too much” information to the IRS. What about Fast and Furious? What about Benghazi? What about every other supposed scandal that starts out by with the House Republicans clambering about impeachable offenses because they suspect that something may exist in some document that they don't yet have even though they have no evidence to suggest that any such thing exists.
Supporting evidence for the previous paragraph.

This is like saying, if Fenton murdered someone we'll be sure to send him straight to jail. How could he possibly think that he could get away with murder. I know he hasn't turned himself in, but if we can pin this charge on him, then we'll be sure to take him to trial. Granted, we have no evidence that Fenton did anything, but we also don't have all of the information yet.
An analogy, albeit a moderatly ridiculous one.

Now a real argument ad hominem would be one where I discount the meat of a post through name-calling. For example, I could say that points 1, 2, and 3, are wrong because they're just talking points. That's ad hominem. (Sorry, I'm an engineer and sometimes I just can't help myself)
 
Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups in 201

You were never a Conservative.

Conservatives are principled people who don't change their ideology to suite the weather.

You may have thought you were at one time when in reality you simply misunderstood the definition of the word.

I always call BS on liberals when they tell me they morphed out of Conservatism. For one thing its backwards.

Remember the saying ? If your young and Conservative you have no heart, if your'e old and Liberal you have no brain.

Look Conservatism is a ideology defined by truth, Liberalism is " Truth " defined by ideology, so chances are you were always Liberal because the truth is a constant.......unless of course your'e a Democrat.

I meam your statement that Obama's administration is the " cleanest " ? THAT'S a little frightening.

If someone I knew told me that we would be in hot pursuit of the nearest MRI because my suspicion woulf be a brain tumor has clouded their judgment.
This might be the most unintentionally hilarious post I've read in a long while. Even if the irony is intentional, it's quite believable.

You start off by saying that conservatives are principled people who don't change their ideology. In fact, your principles are defined by “Truth”, rather than those terrible people on the other side who define truth with their ideology. Irony overload!!!!!

This means that you know the right answer for everything. You didn't learn it, no one told you it. You just knew. You know the right policy for every situation. You know the motivation for everyone who disagrees with you. In fact, you even know me.. better than I know myself.

Please, count me as someone who changes my point of view as soon as the wind blows a better one in my path. Yes I'm more than sometimes wrong. It happens often, and about things that I believe with absolute certainty. I don't pretend to have all of the answers and I will believe whatever the evidence tells me as much as the evidence supports for as long as the evidence supports it. There may be a “Truth”, but I'll never know it.. or at least I will never KNOW that I know it.

I don't pretend that something is the “Truth” because I happen to believe it. I'm not wedded to any ideology. Defining liberalism as someone willing to change their mind is essentially saying that liberals think, while conservatives don't need to. This is totally false. Once you move past the Glen Becks, there's a lot of deep honest though in conservative circles. In fact, real conservative thought has dictated the majority of policy from the 80's. (eg Cap and Trade - Conservative; Individual Mandate - Conservative)...

Your position isn't a conservative one, because a true conservative will go where the facts lead.
 
Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups in 201

This might be the most unintentionally hilarious post I've read in a long
while. Even if the irony is intentional, it's quite believable.

You start off by saying that conservatives are principled people who don't change their ideology. In fact, your principles are defined by “Truth”, rather than those terrible people on the other side who define truth with their ideology. Irony overload!!!!!

This means that you know the right answer for everything. You didn't learn it, no one told you it. You just knew. You know the right policy for
every situation. You know the motivation for everyone who disagrees with you. In fact, you even know me.. better than I know myself.

Please, count me as someone who changes my point of view as soon as the wind blows a better one in my path. Yes I'm more than sometimes wrong. It happens often, and about things that I believe with absolute certainty. I don't pretend to have all of the answers and I will believe whatever the evidence tells me as much as the evidence supports for as long as the evidence supports it. There may be a “Truth”, but I'll never know it.. or at least I will never KNOW that I know it.

I don't pretend that something is the “Truth” because I happen to believe it. I'm not wedded to any ideology. Defining liberalism as someone willing to change their mind is essentially saying that liberals think, while conservatives don't need to. This is totally false. Once you move past the Glen Becks, there's a lot of deep honest though in conservative circles. In fact, real conservative thought has dictated the majority of policy from the 80's. (eg Cap and Trade - Conservative; Individual Mandate - Conservative)...

Your position isn't a conservative one, because a true conservative will go where the facts lead.

You thought that was funny ?

Wow, it wen't right over your head.

Right or wrong is subjective. For example your'e trying to mitigate and justify an obvious cover up, your'e trying to explain away a President and a administration who has sunk to a new low.

Your'e ignoring the obvious and are working off of a construct that backs your'e ideology. Your'e willing to twist the truth to suite your needs.

I'm looking at all of the data that's come out of this scandal, plus I'm taking into consideration precedence, Obama's past lies ( there are many ) his habit of disconnecting from any thing substantive unless it helps him, Hillary and Holder's past, the general corruption of the Liberal agenda, the complicity of our media and I'm making a objective analysis.

You get it ? I've come to a conclusion based on truth and objectivity, NOT based on how it makes my ideology look to others.

Now, do you actually think Obama's General Council kept the information in the IGs report away from Obama for three weeks ?
 
Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups in 201

Been watching this all morning on Fox News... somebody - or a lot of "somebodies" - is/are in deep, deep, deep ****.
 
Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups in 201

What they did was wrong and they should be prosecuted/fired, whatever is appropriate. I do not believe it went up the chain of command. Lots of Republicans are getting the base stirred up with these anecdotal instances of people getting harassed for donating to the RNC etc. That part I dont believe.
Been watching this all morning on Fox News... somebody - or a lot of "somebodies" - is/are in deep, deep, deep ****.
 
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