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IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups[W:484,732]

Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups in 201

Its a good argument to get rid of the income tax system and replace it with a sales tax
 
Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups in 201

TurtleDude said:
Its a good argument to get rid of the income tax system and replace it with a sales tax
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Yeah because it's impossible to cheat on sale taxes.

BWHAHAHAHHAHAH!
 
Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups in 201

head of joaquin said:
Yeah because it's impossible to cheat on sale taxes.

BWHAHAHAHHAHAH!
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that's not the issue

The IRS gives the government way too much power that it was never intended to have
 
Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups in 201

TurtleDude said:
that's not the issue

The IRS gives the government way too much power that it was never intended to have
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National sales tax rates can be raised without anyone realizing it. Sneak it into an unrelated bill on page 560.

A National Sales Tax has the same problem as European VAT. One of the benefits of a complex income tax code is that it's hard to pull sneak raises.

Furthermore, compliance for National Sales Tax is going to make the IRS into one of the largest government agencies out there. Mere compliance on sales tax will require millions of auditors. National Sales tax is all fine and dandy on paper, but it's a bloody frackin' nightmare in practicality if you're going to replace income taxes with it.

At a rate of 5%, non-compliance is low. At a rate of 17~26%, non-compliance is huge.
 
Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups in 201

obvious Child said:
National sales tax rates can be raised without anyone realizing it. Sneak it into an unrelated bill on page 560.

A National Sales Tax has the same problem as European VAT. One of the benefits of a complex income tax code is that it's hard to pull sneak raises.
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it also cuts down massively on the power of congress though

and raising the sales tax will piss every voter off

a bit more risky than just taking "the rich" more to buy the votes of the masses
 
Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups in 201

TurtleDude said:
it also cuts down massively on the power of congress though
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Not really. There's nothing in a sale tax that prevents Congress from writing in special rates for special industries.

and raising the sales tax will piss every voter off
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Like that stops them now. Point still remains that giving Congress a national sales tax gives them a very easy way to raise taxes without anyone realizing it until it's too late.

Furthermore, National Sales Tax results in a bigger government purely from a logistical application stance.
 
Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups in 201

Buck Ewer said:
Romney claimed that "corporations are people too"... HA!
If you really want to pursue this line of hair splitting; The exercise of infidelity to Allah is an idea as is the exercise of a government of, by and for the people. The people calling for an end to the US government by starving it of revenue should be investigated for possible activity of tax evasion. The radical Islamist should be investigated for a possible plot to deploy a bomb. I drew the simile to illustrate the gravity of calling for the overthrow of the government by not paying taxes is every bit as high as calling for the end to America by throwing a bomb. Either activity should be investigated by the appropriate federal agency.
I'm not going to argue that the simile is exactly linear but I believe I made my point that they are at least ...similar.
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Thank God, we don't live in a country that operates by such a twisted idea...yet.
 
Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups in 201

TurtleDude said:
that's not the issue

The IRS gives the government way too much power that it was never intended to have
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You've missed the point . If there were a national sales tax, you'd need the IRS to enforce it. It's remarkably easy to cheat on paying sales taxes since both parties, buyer and seller benefit from not reporting. Not so with income taxes, since the employer/contractor has an incentive to report the payment.

See your problem? Too many rightwing websites.
 
Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups in 201

head of joaquin said:
You've missed the point . If there were a national sales tax, you'd need the IRS to enforce it. It's remarkably easy to cheat on paying sales taxes since both parties, buyer and seller benefit from not reporting. Not so with income taxes, since the employer/contractor has an incentive to report the payment.

See your problem? Too many rightwing websites.
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opinion noted not shared.

your problem-feeling a need to pretend that the far left is always right
 
Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups in 201

TurtleDude said:
Its a good argument to get rid of the income tax system and replace it with a sales tax
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There is already a federal sales tax of sorts. Business taxes are nothing more than a sales tax. It's just easier to disguise it from consumers than a flat out sales tax at the register.
 
Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups in 201

obvious Child said:
Not really. There's nothing in a sale tax that prevents Congress from writing in special rates for special industries.



Like that stops them now. Point still remains that giving Congress a national sales tax gives them a very easy way to raise taxes without anyone realizing it until it's too late.

Furthermore, National Sales Tax results in a bigger government purely from a logistical application stance.
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I deny that, there is no way congress could raise a sales tax rate without most people knowing about it
 
Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups in 201

BretJ said:
There is already a federal sales tax of sorts. Business taxes are nothing more than a sales tax. It's just easier to disguise it from consumers than a flat out sales tax.
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we need to get rid of the IRS and the income tax. we need to massively castrate congressional power
 
Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups in 201

TurtleDude said:
I deny that, there is no way congress could raise a sales tax rate without most people knowing about it
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Why? Congress made it illegal to resell a used computer with a MS license on it (despite the glaring problems of legal right of use). How did they do it? They put the law into an unrelated bill and passed it at late night vote.

There's nothing stopping Congress from slipping in a sale taxes increase to an unrelated bill and passing it. Since most Congress Members don't even read the bills, there's a SUPER HIGH CHANCE that they could do this. A complex tax code has all kinds of interactions that alert interested parties in potential changes. The IRS has to go through various drafts as to what gets changed and how it affects other things and they reach out to the tax industry for assistance. That's how a lot of the changes now get made publicly. With a simple rate change to sale tax, that goes away.
 
Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups in 201

Bonzai said:
Correct me if I'm wrong , but isn't this IRS thing about ascertaining eligibility for tax exempt status ?..............
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Making sure they fall within the law is nothing that would require an apology, or cause a scandal. The problem is that they appeared to single out Conservative groups for more scrutiny.
 
Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups in 201

obvious Child said:
Why? Congress made it illegal to resell a used computer with a MS license on it (despite the glaring problems of legal right of use). How did they do it? They put the law into an unrelated bill and passed it at late night vote.

There's nothing stopping Congress from slipping in a sale taxes increase to an unrelated bill and passing it. Since most Congress Members don't even read the bills, there's a SUPER HIGH CHANCE that they could do this. A complex tax code has all kinds of interactions that alert interested parties in potential changes. The IRS has to go through various drafts as to what gets changed and how it affects other things and they reach out to the tax industry for assistance. That's how a lot of the changes now get made publicly. With a simple rate change to sale tax, that goes away.
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The complexity of the tax code is the problem....People don't even have a clue as to what their total tax bill is per year....If they did, things would change in a hurry. Plus, the more complex the code, the more open the system is to corruption. The "KISS" law to life is always the best path in all areas.
 
Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups in 201

TurtleDude said:
opinion noted not shared.

your problem-feeling a need to pretend that the far left is always right
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You really need to admit it when you haven't bothered to think through a policy. It's remarkably easy to cheat on sales taxes. Just take cash and run a false cashregister report. Restaurants do it all the time.

Both the customer and the owner benefit because it's tax free -- cheaper for the customer, unreported income from the owners.

Doesn't work that way with income tax, does it? The employer wants the deduction -- he has no incentive to cheat for the benefit of the employee. If it's a buyer, the buyer wants the fulll basis, not a lower one. It's this contending interests that make it hard to cheat at income taxes, easy to cheat at sales taxes. So ironically a national sales tax would require a bigger IRS.
 
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Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups in 201

head of joaquin said:
You really need to admit it when you haven't bothered to think through a policy. It's remarkably easy to cheat on sales taxes. Just take cash and run a false cashregister report. Restaurants do it all the time.

Both the customer and the owner benefit because it's tax free -- cheaper for the customer, unreported income from the owners.

Doesn't work that way with income tax, does it? The employer wants the deduction -- he has no incentive to cheat for the benefit of the employee. If it's a buyer, the buyer wants the fulll basis, not a lower one. It's this contending interests that make it hard to cheat at income taxes, easy to cheat at sales taxes. So ironically a national sales tax would require a bigger IRS.
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you of all people should not be telling others about not bothering to think through a policy.

You fail to understand that the income tax system is used as a major source of extra congressional power by a government that has proven untrustworthy and you ignore the obvious-income tax does not capture the billions of illegal income derived from narcotics trafficking while state sales tax does

and you are lying about a bigger IRS. The current income tax scheme costs americans BILLIONS in compliance costs. Making retail organizations-that already have state sales tax measures in place-would impose far less time costs on the Citizens

so again I suggest you ought to spend more time thinking things through
 
Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups in 201

rocket88 said:
Making sure they fall within the law is nothing that would require an apology, or cause a scandal. The problem is that they appeared to single out Conservative groups for more scrutiny.
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And "pro-Israel groups" and Billy Graham's organization. So I don't want an apology; I want an investigation, firings and demotions, and jail time if warranted.
 
Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups in 201

TurtleDude said:
you of all people should not be telling others about not bothering to think through a policy.

You fail to understand that the income tax system is used as a major source of extra congressional power by a government that has proven untrustworthy and you ignore the obvious-income tax does not capture the billions of illegal income derived from narcotics trafficking while state sales tax does

and you are lying about a bigger IRS. The current income tax scheme costs americans BILLIONS in compliance costs. Making retail organizations-that already have state sales tax measures in place-would impose far less time costs on the Citizens

so again I suggest you ought to spend more time thinking things through
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Not a word of factual rebuttal is this sad post. This is what happens when you get your tax policy from Glenn Beck or Breitbart.
 
Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups in 201

head of joaquin said:
Not a word of factual rebuttal is this sad post. This is what happens when you get your tax policy from Glenn Beck or Breitbart.
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more idiotic blathering. why is it that the people most likely to reference two entertainers tend to be the far wrong not conservatives or libertarians?

Your fixation on Beck is noted. I don't listen to him so your psychobabble is just silly
 
Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups in 201

Helix said:
i'd definitely like to see a more thorough explanation of this from the IRS. i'd also like to know why these groups are tax exempt.
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For one thing, those organizations make diddly squat. Even if they didn't apply for that status, it's hard to imagine they would owe anything.
 
Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups in 201

digsbe said:
In a nation where we have free speech this should never happen. One of the biggest fears with bloated bureaucracy is that they will use their position to squash or hinder political groups or people they don't like.

My concern is I wonder how high up this goes.
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Corporations/hedge funds/oil cos. who like taxpayers to foot their bills/liabilities -> lobbyists -> Congressional pols -> House Ways and Means Committee -> Tax Laws -> IRS .
 
Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups in 201

j-mac said:
The complexity of the tax code is the problem.
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There is no question about that.

People don't even have a clue as to what their total tax bill is per year.
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What makes you say that? You see how much you get withheld on your paychecks. You know how much you have to write if you do estimates. You know how much you either owe or get back. Your total tax bill is actually easy to calculate. In fact, estimating it is super easy. Take your rate, your prior year's AGI and multiply.
 
Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups in 201

Jango said:
IRS targeted groups critical of government, documents from agency probe show - The Washington Post
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Is anyone else thinking that they're (possibly) being targeted because they've badmouthed the Obama administration or the government in general? I mean, not that us private citizens would know in most circumstances since all the F.B.I. has to do is issue a National Security Letter to our cell phone or Internet providers (or like to Google, if that's the search engine you use), which they'll oblige, and which they cannot tell us about that they're handing over information about us to the government. I find it, somewhat, humorous, that the Associated Press is so demoralized and angry over this entire issue. I guess they should feel welcomed to the 21st Century in America, where privacy, freedom and rights are not guaranteed by anything or any piece of paper with writing on it. Like Detective McClane said, "Welcome to the party, pal!"
 
Re: IRS apologizes for inappropriately targeting conservative political groups in 201

solletica said:
For one thing, those organizations make diddly squat. Even if they didn't apply for that status, it's hard to imagine they would owe anything.
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It has more to do with keeping the names of their donors secret, if I understand the issue correctly.
 
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